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  1. #91
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    lots of stuff
    +1. Thank you. I <3 my ESTP BFF to death and that post made me want to do bad things to innocent kittens.
    I 65.63% E 34.38%
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  2. #92
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I've rarely in my life been furious about anything, and when prompted by another to consider my actions/motivations, respond with diplomacy. In short, what you wrote above is rubbish, IMO. You want to see furious when they are questioned? Try an ESTJ type-A male. ESTPs are cool headed and smooth.
    The kind of diplomacy where you call other people's experiences and opinions rubbish? And that based on your own personal experience as well? I see.

    You should do a survey here and see how people feel about linking ESTPs and coolheadedness. IMO, this post doesn't do much to help your case. Neither did your reply to the people criticising INFJ-ESTP relationships.

    (1) How can you disrespect a skill? It is the inappropriate utilization of a skill that is capacble of being disrespectable; the skill itself is not disrespectable, as interpretation of a skill's utilization is totally dependent on the context of the situation it is being implemented in.
    The skill revolves around manipulation (in the sense of indirectly steering other people). Whether for good or for bad, that is a starting point that remains problematic for me.

    (2) Are you under the assumption that others are concerned whether or not you respect them? Just curious.
    No. However, I also do not operate under the assumption that I should respect people simply because they feel mistreated when I don't (pretend to). I offered my opinion. You seem to be offended by it.

    The sheer ignorance of your remark is astounding.
    Why?

    I have run into a lot of these issues with ESTPs and have observed others in interaction with them dealing with the same issues. They are valid points for consideration. ESTPs are prone to suffering from the locked-in-self syndrome that can be found in all Ti users. It makes for a certain blindness.

    Do you think ESTPs are the only MBTI type that can misinterpret other people?
    Obviously no. And neither have I claimed so.

    And as far as our (ESTPs') forte as being one of "influence" rather than "understanding," that is a rather shallow thing to say, as it assumes your understanding is correct, and that of others is not.
    I don't understand why you would rate "influence" lower than "understanding" considering your claim in quote 2. That's something that's your psyche's responsibility and not mine.

    If by that you mean that I assume that my understanding of the functioning of ESTPs is correct, then yes, I am convinced that it has merit. I don't subscribe to the idea that I should elaborate on my own blind spots (which I argue lie in different dimensions from those of the ESTP) simply to make you feel better because I criticised yours. And I do believe that in many cases, the assumptions on which the ESTP mind is based prevent a complete and conscious understanding of the other. As I said, it is the price you pay for having a prominent introverted judging process. I do a better job at assuming other people's assumptions as it were. Which doesn't mean that I have to agree with them or cannot oppose them...

    ESTPs do have an excellent intuitive (heh) understanding of how to influence people, which might presuppose a subconscious map of sorts - a variety of understanding as well if you insist.

    Do not hate those that have the wherewithall to pursue their own will in real life. There are three types of people in this world:

    (1) Those that can
    (2) Those that will
    (3) Those that can AND will

    ESTPs are among the few people that consistently "can and will" get things done when needed, regardless if they are personally vested in the situation or not. ESTPs work WITH and THROUGH others to accomplish objectives, which is why we're so damn handy to have on a work team of any kind.

    I think your beef is with selfish, unhealthy people, whom I guarantee you are of all 16 MBTI types, and no just ESTPs.
    That's a little transparent. It seems that you are unreasonably attached to your type. I do not hate ESTPs.

    I wonder if you are simply offended by my style.

  3. #93
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I think ESTP's are greatly misunderstood.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  4. #94
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    I wonder if you are simply offended by my style.
    Or lack thereof, but nonetheless I wish you well.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I think ESTP's are greatly misunderstood.
    ISTPs are also greatly misunderstood. Why is it that those (XSTPs) who figure out how the gears of life work are resented by others?
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    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  5. #95
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Or lack thereof, but nonetheless I wish you well.



    ISTPs are also greatly misunderstood. Why is it that those (XSTPs) who figure out how the gears of life work are resented by others?
    It's always easier to hide behind insults and the idea that others merely fail to understand your awesomeness than it is to look into the mirror.

  6. #96
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    It's always easier to hide behind insults and the idea that others merely fail to understand your awesomeness than it is to look into the mirror.
    The only thing easier to do than that is to make baseless and derogatory assumptions about others from afar. Keep at it, you're doing great, I'm taking notes...

    Let's see how much more you've got.

    Tell us all about those evil, manipulative ESTPs...
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  7. #97
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    Now how did they fit Whoopi Goldberg into a basket on the front of a bicycle?





    Wait, that's not Whoopie! It's the Extra Testicle!

    "Elliot! Elliot! You're stepping on my testicles!"


  8. #98
    Junior Member jo savage's Avatar
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    Wow. This is an interesting thread. So...anyone want to place bets? I've somehow become emotionally entangled with an ESTP. It seems like we both have a sharp object up against the other's jugular at all times. I can see the manipulation, and what makes it weird is my rational side is watching this and wondering who is going to be burned down to the fucking ground, and my involved emotional side keeps getting taken advantage of. But then I'm also getting hits at him too.
    It's all just an entertaining, albeit goddamn draining, spectacle.

  9. #99
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo savage View Post
    Wow. This is an interesting thread. So...anyone want to place bets? I've somehow become emotionally entangled with an ESTP. It seems like we both have a sharp object up against the other's jugular at all times. I can see the manipulation, and what makes it weird is my rational side is watching this and wondering who is going to be burned down to the fucking ground, and my involved emotional side keeps getting taken advantage of. But then I'm also getting hits at him too.
    It's all just an entertaining, albeit goddamn draining, spectacle.

    Man. That sounds familiar. I once described the ESTP I dated as "a worthy adversary" to my friend. To which she responded, " ...this is someone you like, right?"

    Yep.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  10. #100
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Lol, yes, manipulation all around for at least ESTPs. And how furious they get when you point out to them what they're trying to do (because to their mind, what they are asking is completely logical).
    The bolded part doesn't quite make sense from the standpoint of someone trying to maneuver another person...when someone doesn't respond in the way you anticipated or wanted, you don't get upset and argue that your request is logical, you either do damage control and try to deflect from your mistake or go with it and try again from a different angle. What you've said doesn't sound right at all.

    Now, maybe you've known ESTPs who are not very good at doing this and just got loud when you pointed out their failure and tried to act indignant to save face and shift the blame onto you. I doubt they got upset because they thought what they were asking was completely logical...that sounds more like an ESTJ reaction, in which case you've mistyped them and misunderstood their intentions.

    Either that, or you interprited an ESTP behavior as deceptive when they were being honest and got upset at being falsely accused. People tend to not really appreciate being accused of manipulation when they weren't doing it. A big emotional reaction like this is the last thing a person would want to do because it makes you look guilty, so either they're an inexperienced and absolutely horrible liar, or worse for you, they're telling the truth and you just pissed them off.

    I'm not arguing that xSTPs are super grand masters and would never make such a mistake, but the claim that they become furious when they're called out because they think what they're asking is logical flies in the face of the basic principles of manipulation. Either the person was not xSTP, or they were being honest, or they were REALLY bad at what they were doing...in which case, they deserve what they get. ;p

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