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  1. #11
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I know several ESFPs (including my sister!) and I love them to bits, but they're so unreliable! They are frequently forget to show up to appointments,very rarely return phone calls and hardly ever pay back debts. Of course when I see them they're so damned pleasant that I forget how mad I am at them! This in itself kind of makes me mad!
    I have heard ENPs are capable of this as well. I would throw ESFJs into the mix for uniformity and say that this may be the result of the "Get Things Going" interaction style:
    The theme is persuading and involving others. They thrive in facilitator or catalyst roles and aim to inspire others to move to action, facilitating the process. Their focus is on interaction, often with an expressive style. They Get-Things-Going with upbeat energy, enthusiasm, or excitement, which can be contagious. Exploring options and possibilities, making preparations, discovering new ideas, and sharing insights are all ways they get people moving along. They want decisions to be participative and enthusiastic, with everyone involved and engaged.
    When "ON" this can be a very dynamic type of personality, however when "OFF" they can appear two-faced slick Willies who are careless and irresponsible. I would think that the average type reader would throw ESTP into the fray, based on some of the descriptions. I think that MBTT and Keirsey offer this interpretation, whereas Socionics and Berens see ESTPs as being subdued.

  2. #12
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I know several ESFPs, and I wouldn't rely on any of them for anything serious. With that said...some do know how to get things done and are capable of buckling down, but I think it depends a lot on their upbringing.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #13
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Having now spent the past two months since I first saw the OP of this thread, allowing my Ne to grasp any clue as to the meaning of "flake" (because it would've spoiled all the fun to look it up) in American culture, I'm now in a position to answer this thread.

    My answer is "no".

    And in a fuller sense, no, because my ESFP sister is a great mom and can always be relied on to keep agreements. My ENFP brother, however, is the original, definitive, makes you want to grab him by the lapels and shake him, biggest flake the world has ever seen.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #14
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    My sister's an ESFP I'm pretty sure, and she's very reliable. My brother, the ENFP, is much more "out of sight, out of mind."
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #15
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    First of all somebody explain to this non-native-english-speaker-person what do you mean by flake?
    Not corn flake I would assume?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Let go.
    You would be good therapist by making people answering their own questions.

    * * * *

    I know several ESFPs and they are fun & helpful people.

  6. #16
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    A flake typically means someone who is pleasant and good-natured, but unreliable.

    I want to add to my comment about my ENFP brother that I know I can rely on him to be there when it REALLY matters. Same is true of my ESFP sister, but she's also there when there's no crisis.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #17
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    First of all somebody explain to this non-native-english-speaker-person what do you mean by flake?
    Not corn flake I would assume?
    *puts on Hoshi Sato costume*

    From what I can gather, it means someone who's generally unreliable, irresponsible, and generally a pain in the ass. An element of being a freeloader (i.e. always being broke and relying on charity of friends due to mismanagement of own finances) seems to be implied as well.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #18
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    *puts on Hoshi Sato costume*

    From what I can gather, it means someone who's generally unreliable, irresponsible, and generally a pain in the ass. An element of being a freeloader (i.e. always being broke and relying on charity of friends due to mismanagement of own financecs) seems to be implied as well.
    Thanks for the "translations"!
    I think unhealthy ESFP's are pretty much flakes if flake is something that Substitute "translated" to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    A flake typically means someone who is pleasant and good-natured, but unreliable.
    Healthy ESFP could be like Ivy "translated" the word.

    And by the way, I like the really old Star Treks.
    I don't have a clue who these "new" characters are.

  9. #19
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    Thanks for the "translations"!
    I think unhealthy ESFP's are pretty much flakes if flake is something that Substitute "translated" to me.



    Healthy ESFP could be like Ivy "translated" the word.

    And by the way, I like the really old Star Treks.
    I don't have a clue who these "new" characters are.
    Yeah I forgot to add the "likeable, which is why they get away with it" part.

    I also didn't know about the new characters (beyond TNG) until last year when I decided to increase my Trek-Lore by buying all series and watching them in sequence

    Ivy, my brother can be relied on when it REALLY matters, about 50% of the time. Which means he can't really be relied on... cos there's a large chance he'll fail you. He's getting worse as he gets older because his shrugging of responsibility and terror of commitment are increasing, but as people are getting wise to him and getting fed up of having to sub him and bail him out all the time, the goodwill he had from being likeable and friendly has diminished substantially. But he still doesn't see that it's his own fault and thinks people are being mean and judging him and stuff... when they just have families and commitments now and can't have him sleeping on their sofa and eating at their expense all the time any more.

    I think there's nothing wrong with being a flake when you're young and nothing, really, wrong with it even when you're older... but it seems the longer you leave it before you buck your ideas up, y'know, the more likely you are to lose that goodwill and turn bitter, so you end up not having any redeeming features...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #20
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah I forgot to add the "likeable, which is why they get away with it" part.

    I also didn't know about the new characters (beyond TNG) until last year when I decided to increase my Trek-Lore by buying all series and watching them in sequence

    Ivy, my brother can be relied on when it REALLY matters, about 50% of the time. Which means he can't really be relied on... cos there's a large chance he'll fail you. He's getting worse as he gets older because his shrugging of responsibility and terror of commitment are increasing, but as people are getting wise to him and getting fed up of having to sub him and bail him out all the time, the goodwill he had from being likeable and friendly has diminished substantially. But he still doesn't see that it's his own fault and thinks people are being mean and judging him and stuff... when they just have families and commitments now and can't have him sleeping on their sofa and eating at their expense all the time any more.

    I think there's nothing wrong with being a flake when you're young and nothing, really, wrong with it even when you're older... but it seems the longer you leave it before you buck your ideas up, y'know, the more likely you are to lose that goodwill and turn bitter, so you end up not having any redeeming features...
    Yeah, that doesn't really describe my brother at all. He got his ass in gear when he became a father and is very successful IT manager now. (In fact, that's how I know he'd be there for me in a crisis- he made it possible for my husband to get certifications through his company, without which we would've been up a creek. He even bought the books.)

    He's sweet and enthusiastic but NEVER calls (there's the ISFJ in me!) or return my messages or emails, except for sometimes. It's not because I bug him often- it's seriously only once a month or less. He's just very busy being sweet and enthusiastic where he physically is, 300 miles away from me. He and his wife are both ENFPs, and they're both very out-of-sight-out-of-mind (plus super-busy in their lives), but when we're together in the same physical location it's like no time has passed.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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