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  1. #11
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    You know what I actually tried thinking about this but am drawing out blanks. Are you looking for something that just gives a short term mood boost? I don't think there is an effective way of achieving that on an ISTP. You can only divert his attention away from the negative mood, in that case just letting him do whatever he likes doing will do. You can give him encouragements after he's done, but I strongly advice against constant bugging. I'm not sure how much of an EF you are but once-in-a-while for you may well be constant bugging for an ISTP, but you'll have to make the call on that. On the other hand, if you want to improve his general mood I think you'll have to plan out something long term.

    PS: Also, there is this ENFJ that I know that likes to brood whenever our conversation gets awkward. Please please please do not sulk in front of us. Don't think we won't notice. Se sees in all direction and picks up the slightest cues. Hide in a room, pretend to do something, but don't give us more reasons to feel bad.
    Note 1:
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    Bolded point above is a good one. Don't smother. Better to err on the side of too little attention than too much.
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  2. #12
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Relax, be happy yourself, and do some things he enjoys.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Note 1:
    You're depressed.
    I need more Fi.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  4. #14
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    i approve of this thread.

    there should be more threads like this one.
    +1

    And I think cooking is a great idea! Not something ridiculously complex, but not a grilled cheese sandwich either. It'll keep you both doing something, give him time to talk if he wants to...and if not, well, you're both cooking anyway. And best of all - you get to eat when it's all done!

    Something else might be playing a good 2-player video game together. I usually like that. 1) You're playing a video game and that's fun on its own. 2) You can talk if you wanna. 3) Video games are quite frankly more fun when you're in a group (hence WoW success).

    Oh, and give him a good long hug! I know we're not touchy feely, but they're nice to get sometimes.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    edit: being more specific to your situation, what kind of longboards? do some internet read ups on carving/leaning into turns. brainstorm some good hills/runs around you. do this with him/talk about it.
    He is extremely good at boarding. I'm just learning but I can keep up. He has a loaded pintail, rayne demonseed, flex dex mini (I'm getting a cometn FSM) but we skate with a group & we have about 8 boards altogether. He loves building 'em. He has a little notebook with all the boards he wants to put together some day. I'm going to get him a lot of parts from the list for Christmas so he can just build them. Brainstorming & looking for hills is a good idea because we know a lot of them in town but he is always talking about wanting to find more.

    We actually cook all the time together. He really likes that. I just let him chill today. He was in a surprisingly good mood so I didn't really bug him with anything. He did help me with my homemade eggnog though! I bought a lot of weird stuff to cook with today, so I'll just give him an ingredient & challenge him to invent something we haven't done before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    PS: Also, there is this ENFJ that I know that likes to brood whenever our conversation gets awkward. Please please please do not sulk in front of us. Don't think we won't notice. Se sees in all direction and picks up the slightest cues. Hide in a room, pretend to do something, but don't give us more reasons to feel bad.
    Believe me, I try. Yeah, I'm actually doing this because I'm trying to pull back on that kind of thing. We are trying to work some things out & I'm trying to keep it light. I'm not with him all the time but when I am home, while we're dealing with this, I'd like to be able to fill in the space with something nicely distracting to keep him encouraged & keep me from thinking about our issues when I don't really need to.

    And the hiding in rooms, pretending to do something doesn't always work either. Unless you do it & get a poker face on again really quickly. But you should be aware that even though ENFJs "sulking" appears manipulative, its not really intentional & very difficult to control. Turning off our negative feelings in the middle of something that's feeding them could be as difficult for us as you trying to conjure genuine heart wrenching misery in the middle of your favorite activity. It happens when we run out of ideas & start to feel powerless. We are INTENSE feelers & it overpowers our rationality. That bad feeling just sort of turns into this overwhelming "bummer" mode that makes us drop our heads & sigh like the whole world's coming apart. And the intensity of it may bum you out to such an extent, or seem so dramatic & unreasonable that it appears we are very aware what reaction we're going to get out of you... and are doing to get that reaction. This is NEVER the reason for me. I actually feel compounded negative emotions when I sulk... because of the guilt that comes with knowing that, while I am overreacting, I am making someone feel obligated to help me because of the intensity of it, I can't stop it right away or take it back when its done. It takes a great deal of effort to catch the "sulk" before it shows itself. Ever actually physically "felt" yourself swallow an emotion? Sometimes I think it can be worse that just letting yourself get swept up in it.

    Not saying that ENFJs don't know this is manipulative. Some may use it to intentionally get reactions out of you I guess... but if they are I really don't think they could actually be emotionally turned on (meaning, the sulk is fake). Because the guilt always seems to accompany the negative emotions.

    It really bothers & worries me that my ISTP thinks I have better control over my emotional expressions than I let on... or rather, thinks I don't actively work on suppressing their intensity so I don't have outbursts. He should know how much I do hold back & self soothe because we both crave & deserve some peace. I actually do this for some positive emotions too, which can be way too over the top to be validated by him. But he should still realize feelings become valid once they are felt, regardless of where they came from. Because they become as influential as anything solid once they are there. Suppressing them doesn't make them disappear & can be nearly impossible if they are right in your face & you can't look around them because they are so intense.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    Believe me, I try. Yeah, I'm actually doing this because I'm trying to pull back on that kind of thing. We are trying to work some things out & I'm trying to keep it light. I'm not with him all the time but when I am home, while we're dealing with this, I'd like to be able to fill in the space with something nicely distracting to keep him encouraged & keep me from thinking about our issues when I don't really need to.

    *snip*
    Okay, I should clarify. I'm not accusing you of being manipulative. I am aware that most of what I saw is genuine, since technically it was directed at thin air, and as such should not have an effect on anyone but themselves. I also attributed my ability to read it like this as Se-based. I don't know if I should generalize this next bit, but this kind of manipulation, even if it was actually directed at me, will always fail because of inferior Fe / dominant Ti, which will get angry instead. That is however irrelevant. What happens however, is that if I do care about the person, their negative vibe would effect me. If I'm just feeling mellow, and a person sitting next to me is giving off this gloomy aura in waves, that aura bothers me. This can go both ways, either I actively fix it, or if that cannot be done, my mood drops. There may be no physical signs of this happening, but if I care, one or the other always happens.

    I guess this is one of the bigger problems between an ISTP-ENFJ relationship, on the flip side though, positive energy also works the same way. I think it will do you much good if you improve your own general mood first.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  7. #17
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    i know next to nothing about longboarding but i looked up those decks and watched some vids, looks fun.

    thanks for including model info, i might want to get into it. i used to be a strict xc bike guy and now i have a thing for bmx (i'm NOT good, but it's still fun), it seems like i progress to more and more simple machines over time.

    at this rate eventually i'm just gonna ditch the wheels all together and do parkour.

    Oh, and buying the parts for christmas is an amazing idea. I know if I had a deck and a big parts bin I'd be swapping out wheels/trucks and trying different combos for every type of turn, carve, weight distribution etc.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #18
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    But he should still realize feelings become valid once they are felt, regardless of where they came from. Because they become as influential as anything solid once they are there. Suppressing them doesn't make them disappear & can be nearly impossible if they are right in your face & you can't look around them because they are so intense.

    I can only speak for myself here, but emotions just don't hit me like that. I more just move in slow rolling waves, if you will. So, the intensity is never, and has never been there for me. I can control them or suppress them, and deal with them on my own schedule, not theirs. Hard to explain, but I just work it all through internally, mostly at night as I'm dozing off to sleep...

    Anyway, as a result, I'd personally say....there's no one thing that will move your ISTP to some suddenly happy state, at least not one where he won't revert to near where he was as soon as it's done. I'd say just do the things you enjoy, relax, hang out, whatever, and his mood will gradually improve.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    ...
    I guess this is one of the bigger problems between an ISTP-ENFJ relationship, on the flip side though, positive energy also works the same way. I think it will do you much good if you improve your own general mood first.
    That is all very relevant. Because I never saw the anger as an expression of Ti, and of course, that has happened before. The mood thing happens too. Like subconscious empathy that he can't seem to act on if it gets bad enough. I understand how important your last statement is. The intensity of my positive moods can turn him around so fast. But we ENFJs get into this negative loop when we can't influence a situation. If we need someone else to do something to make our relationship feel stable (so we can be calm about the future our eyes are always turned toward) & they just won't do it... we are stuck in negative emotion & suppression is extremely difficult & worsens the emotions once they are out again. We can be positive again only if we get away from the situation, meaning him. Once I'm near him again... the negative emotions come back until something is "fixed." There has to be a change of some kind or we feel stuck. So I generally leave for a bit... cheer up, come back to him... & when I start to feel bad, go do something, cheer up... on & on. This is, of course, when we are going through big problems (like what's going on now). But hopefully this won't last too long. And thanks for reminding me because it helps to keep thinking about how valuable it is to us for me to keep my mood positive.

    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    I can only speak for myself here, but emotions just don't hit me like that. I more just move in slow rolling waves, if you will. So, the intensity is never, and has never been there for me. I can control them or suppress them, and deal with them on my own schedule, not theirs. Hard to explain, but I just work it all through internally, mostly at night as I'm dozing off to sleep...
    Like this ^ is almost impossible for ENFJs & one of the reasons ISTPs are so damn attractive to us. To have that kind of power over my emotions would make me feel unstoppable. To see it in him makes me think about how I control mine in different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    i know next to nothing about longboarding but i looked up those decks and watched some vids, looks fun.
    ...
    Oh, and buying the parts for christmas is an amazing idea. I know if I had a deck and a big parts bin I'd be swapping out wheels/trucks and trying different combos for every type of turn, carve, weight distribution etc.
    I bet you'd love it! Its soooo addicting. Find a good parking garage or a long run with plenty of hills & its got that comfort feeling you get riding your bike as a kid but punctuated with "OH GOD! IM ABOUT TA DIEEEE!!!!"s. His dad was into biking... otherwise I think he'd be all over that too. The switching of trucks, wheels, bushings, etc can keep him busy forever! He seriously does just that... switches them, tries them out... switches them... He says he's got them "optimized" & then switches them again... haha! I love it!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    But we ENFJs get into this negative loop when we can't influence a situation. If we need someone else to do something to make our relationship feel stable (so we can be calm about the future our eyes are always turned toward) & they just won't do it... we are stuck in negative emotion & suppression is extremely difficult & worsens the emotions once they are out again. We can be positive again only if we get away from the situation, meaning him. Once I'm near him again... the negative emotions come back until something is "fixed." There has to be a change of some kind or we feel stuck. So I generally leave for a bit... cheer up, come back to him... & when I start to feel bad, go do something, cheer up... on & on. This is, of course, when we are going through big problems (like what's going on now). But hopefully this won't last too long.
    You're not going to like this but I'll paraphrase you.

    "I think there is a problem, but it's not my problem. It is his problem. He needs to fix it. I don't know why he doesn't do it but whatever it is holding him up he needs to change. ... He didn't change. It's alright I can put it off. ... He didn't change. It's alright I can put if off. ... [loop]"

    As far as I can see you're only pushing yourself ever closer to the cliff.
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