[MBTI General] What differences and similarities are there between ISFP and ISFJ?

[KLessard]

What differences and similarities are there between ISFP and ISFJ?
I easily mistake an ISFJ for an ISFP and vice versa.

 

[simulatedworld]

They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.

 

[countrygirl]

They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.

Can you give examples of each?

 

[KLessard]

Can you give examples of each?

Yeah, that answer was very NT (very intellectual and into the structure of things), but nonetheless interesting and useful .

 

[simulatedworld]

Can you give examples of each?

Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."

 

[Arclight]

They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.

This is brilliant.. the "red" is like a wave of understanding just hit me..
That was cool.. thanks..

 

[Arclight]

Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."

You are good.. !!!! *bows*

 

[ster]

They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.

Wow, thank you. I've been trying to *grasp* the J/P difference forever, and here you've made it very clear and easy to understand. Much appreciation for this post.

 

[countrygirl]

Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."

Thank you very much! This is the info that I needed to clarify is I was ISFJ or ISFP. I always thought I was a J but have come to realize that it was alway externally imposed.

 

[Jeffster]

Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

OR - they are simply a dichotomy of preferences, and the rest of that stuff is pure speculation, spoken as if it's written in stone.

 

[simulatedworld]

OR - they are simply a dichotomy of preferences, and the rest of that stuff is pure speculation, spoken as if it's written in stone.

Typology itself is pure speculation and none of it can be tested or proven. What's your point?

 

[Jaguar]

OR - they are simply a dichotomy of preferences, and the rest of that stuff is pure speculation, spoken as if it's written in stone.

Some people like to pass off their opinions as fact.
In the end, people leave the conversation with nothing but a bunch of bullshit.

 

[simulatedworld]

Some people like to pass off their opinions as fact.
In the end, people leave the conversation with nothing but a bunch of bullshit.

And some people like to ignore what's actually been written and invent everyone else's beliefs for them.

We all have our guilty pleasures, don't we?

 

[Jeffster]

Typology itself is pure speculation and none of it can be tested or proven. What's your point?

Point is, a preference for one thing over another is a factual thing you can learn about a person. Now, obviously somebody could lie about their preferences, but for the most part, something like "I prefer solitude" vs. "i prefer lots of people around" is something you can learn about a person. So a person may arrive at "I'm an ISFP" through something like, taking the MBTI, or by believing the descriptions to fit best, and all of that mess that you said about knowing their internal whatsamadoodles could be entirely wrong. It's a giant leap to make with not that much to support it.

 

[countrygirl]

Point is, a preference for one thing over another is a factual thing you can learn about a person. Now, obviously somebody could lie about their preferences, but for the most part, something like "I prefer solitude" vs. "i prefer lots of people around" is something you can learn about a person. So a person may arrive at "I'm an ISFP" through something like, taking the MBTI, or by believing the descriptions to fit best, and all of that mess that you said about knowing their internal whatsamadoodles could be entirely wrong. It's a giant leap to make with not that much to support it.

If you are saying that MBTI is subjective evaluation of who you think yourself to be at the core, then yes that's true. Can it be objectively proven? That would depend on how good you are at research.

 

[simulatedworld]

Point is, a preference for one thing over another is a factual thing you can learn about a person. Now, obviously somebody could lie about their preferences, but for the most part, something like "I prefer solitude" vs. "i prefer lots of people around" is something you can learn about a person. So a person may arrive at "I'm an ISFP" through something like, taking the MBTI, or by believing the descriptions to fit best, and all of that mess that you said about knowing their internal whatsamadoodles could be entirely wrong. It's a giant leap to make with not that much to support it.

There's a lot more to support it than you might think without really having taken the time to study it in depth.

The four dichotomy preference thing is not all that clear cut or objective, either. There's no certain definition of exactly what constitutes S/N or T/F or J/P in terms of behaviors, either--the test relies on self-report. The best you can get out of it is learning about how that person sees himself.

But how you see yourself might not be consistent with how you actually are--which leads to a whole mess of typing issues. The other three scales are not nearly as easy to understand or interpret as E/I, so I don't see how you can argue that this system has any more objective validity than Jungian functions. It still runs into the inevitable problem of interpretation.

The only answer is that all of this is purely subjective and up to interpretation, including MBTI four-preference dichotomies.

I resisted learning functional theory too, because it seems really long and convoluted at first, but it provides a nice foil to MBTI's type designations if you give it a chance.