User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 16

  1. #1
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    595

    Default What differences and similarities are there between ISFP and ISFJ?

    What differences and similarities are there between ISFP and ISFJ?
    I easily mistake an ISFJ for an ISFP and vice versa.

  2. #2
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

    Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

    P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

    Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

    Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

    Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

    xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

    xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

    ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

    ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
    ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

    So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

    ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

    So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

    Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

    Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

    If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #3
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ISFx
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

    Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

    P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

    Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

    Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

    Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

    xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

    xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

    ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

    ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
    ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

    So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

    ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

    So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

    Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

    Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.


    If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.
    Can you give examples of each?

  4. #4
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Can you give examples of each?
    Yeah, that answer was very NT (very intellectual and into the structure of things), but nonetheless interesting and useful .

  5. #5
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Can you give examples of each?
    Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

    Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

    His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

    To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

    J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

    To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

    P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

    Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

    P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

    Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

    Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

    Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

    xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

    xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

    ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

    ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
    ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

    So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

    ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

    So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

    Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

    Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.


    If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.
    This is brilliant.. the "red" is like a wave of understanding just hit me..
    That was cool.. thanks..

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

    Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

    His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

    To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

    J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

    To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

    P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."
    You are good.. !!!! *bows*

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    They may look similar on the surface if you don't know them very well, but their value systems are very different.

    Judging from the INFX on your profile there, I'm guessing you don't understand the true significance of P/J.

    P/J is actually the most important letter in typology. Just some quick theory...

    Supposedly, each person will operate primarily on two value systems or "cognitive functions." One of these two value systems will be a Perceiving function (S or N) because it takes in information, while the other will be a Judging function (T or F), because it makes decisions with that information.

    Of these two functions, one will be directed outwardly toward handling other people, ideas and things apart from the self, and the other will be directed inwardly, governing one's private and personal perspectives and outlook.

    Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.

    xxxJ is someone who extroverts the Judging function (Te or Fe) and introverts the Perceiving function (Si or Ni.)

    xxxP is someone who extroverts the Perceiving function (Se or Ne) and introverts the Judging function (Ti or Fi.)

    ISFP and ISFJ are vastly different because they share zero functions.

    ISFP = Introverted Feeling (Fi) + Extroverted Sensing (Se)
    ISFJ = Introverted Sensing (Si) + Extroverted Feeling (Fe)

    So to put it in simple terms, ISFPs define Feeling according to the self and Sensing according to the environment. They are internally F and externally S.

    ISFJs define Sensing according to the self and Feeling according to the environment. They are internally S and externally F, which creates some very different basic behavioral systems and value sets.

    So being "borderline P/J" doesn't really make sense because it implies two completely different value systems. MBTI leads people to this conclusion because it oversimplifies Js as "organized" and Ps as "disorganized" when this is only half the story.

    Js value rigid external organization of the environment but maintain a more flexible private perspective.

    Ps value rigid internal organization of the self but maintain a more flexible external approach.

    If you want more info on what Fi, Se, Si and Fe do in practice then look around the board or just ask for it, but I'm gonna stop here until asked for further clarification.
    Wow, thank you. I've been trying to *grasp* the J/P difference forever, and here you've made it very clear and easy to understand. Much appreciation for this post.

  9. #9
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ISFx
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Sure, one of my favorite examples came from an ENTP friend and his ISTJ girlfriend.

    Her main issue with him was that he wouldn't get a consistent full time job, make schedules/use planners and calendars, and base his life on a planned and structured format. (This is classic Te.)

    His main issue with her was that she wouldn't admit the totally illogical nature of God and renounce her Catholic faith. (This is classic Ti.)

    To the J, it doesn't matter if her internal belief system is "logically consistent" as long as it produces the desired results efficiently. In her case, staying with the religious tradition she was raised with provides stable consistency and a sense of community and safety--and she had a solid career and a detailed plan for her life, so it didn't really matter if she was theoretically logical or not. Je needs the outer world organized because it cannot adapt quickly to external changes, but Pi can switch between different internal perspectives more easily and doesn't see the need to stick consistently to one.

    J method = "Have a plan to get your life in order and under control first, and then personal happiness and internal contentment will follow."

    To the P, it doesn't matter if he has the outer world meticulously planned and organized as long as his internal principles are consistent and he feels like he's right with his inner self. He can't reconcile how the ISTJ could base her life around what he saw as an obvious lie, but his need for internal consistency/inability to act without it is a weakness in just the same way her need for external organization and efficiency is. Pe can operate more easily without a plan or schedule because it adapts quickly to changes in the external environment, but Ji requires hard and fast consistent inner principles because it can't switch between "lenses" easily.

    P method = "Get your personal principles worked out first, and then you'll be able to adapt to and figure out how deal with anything that happens in the external world in real time."

    Thank you very much! This is the info that I needed to clarify is I was ISFJ or ISFP. I always thought I was a J but have come to realize that it was alway externally imposed.

  10. #10
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    6,727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Your two primary functions are represented by your middle two letters, but the P/J and E/I are not functions themselves, just directional descriptions of them.
    OR - they are simply a dichotomy of preferences, and the rest of that stuff is pure speculation, spoken as if it's written in stone.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

    The SP Spazz Youtube Channel

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] How to tell the difference between ISFP and INFP?
    By Giggly in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 12-22-2016, 02:42 PM
  2. What are some key differences between ISFP and ISFJ?
    By lunareclipze in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-03-2014, 05:25 PM
  3. Differences between ISFP and ISFJ?
    By KarenParker in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-26-2011, 07:52 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Main differences between ISFP and ESFP
    By BookLady in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-02-2008, 09:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO