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  1. #71
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    Hm? Oh, she isn't insecure at all. She is in fact more laid back than I am.

    We had a conversation earlier this week, and I couldn't help but dabble into the topic again. I tried to keep it light-hearted, but I think she picked up on my disapproval. She said:



    Honestly? She lacks the fluid Ne on Ne conversation I have with other NP types, plus she doesn't speculate half as much as us. She just dives straight in.
    Well I guess I'm just projecting the details of my situation onto yours.

    My fault. They seemed externally similar.

    She sounds forthcoming enough. (EDIT) I think our situations are different but I would point out that I did have a similar "earnest moment" where she told me about how she acts like "a b****" to cover herself up and distance herself from others, but she really enjoys helping out her friends and being close to family.

    Perhaps I'm making connections where there aren't any.

    What do you mean by the last paragraph?
    Last edited by Bamboo; 11-07-2009 at 08:58 AM. Reason: see post
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #72
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Simple case of "reader-response". Don't worry.

    At least it gave me an insight on the potential pitfalls of IFP/ITP relationships.

    What do you mean by the last paragraph?
    As in the "Ne on Ne" point? Well, with the function as my primary conversational tool, most of my conversations are abtract, pointless, and hypothetical nonsense. I can't give an example, because it just... happens. I make comical connections between what the person just said and with something that seems entirely unrelated. Other NP types seem to understand where I'm coming from, and have a similar response branching from my input until the conversation is a tangled mess of verbiage. With the ISFP, I can get away with it for a bit, but she can't add anything on; she just cracks up at the absurdity of it all.

    I think the most amazing conversation I've had was with an ENTP. It was so ridiculous I can't even remember what we were talking about; the memory just resonates awesome.
    Um, yeah.

  3. #73
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    I forgot to say, it's also possible she has an autism spectrum disorder or is borderline autistic. Feeling types can have it too.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    That's exactly what I wanted to describe it as but didn't have the words. Reader-response.


    As for the 'pitfalls' concept, as I've seen in this thread, I don't know enough about Fi and Fe to really understand it. Maybe.

    Regarding the Ne-Ne, yeah, I know what that is. I grew up with it: my dad is ENTP. Trust me, puns non-stop. I remember him talking with some other NP type (not my INFJ mom, she never can follow a joke/pun) and it was just total pun over pun over tangent.

    My standard response is getting the joke but not responding to it.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    I forgot to say, it's also possible she has an autism spectrum disorder or is borderline autistic. Feeling types can have it too.
    I'm aware of this; I know an ISFJ male with Aspergers. Come tho think of it, I know an INFP who might well be autistic.

    We both jokingly suggested that we must both be "secretly autistic", but... I never gave it much serious thought. Hmm. I know I'm not autistic because I was very responsive as a child, and loved being hugged. As for her, a lot of her traits sound potentially autistic, but her behaviour around people is too... natural? She helps with tourist information where she lives, plus she works as a cashier. Both demanding people skills. Argh, now my over-active imagination is going to be reading "autistic traits" into her behaviour. Nice one.
    Um, yeah.

  6. #76
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I think you are on the right track here. I was reading this thread Empathy and Sympathy

    This quote by Jenocyde cleared it up for me
    That's funny because I think the article she quoted had it exactly backwards. Empathy is the one that's about "being" another person, sympathy is more like just feeling bad that they feel bad.
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  7. #77
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    I'm aware of this; I know an ISFJ male with Aspergers. Come tho think of it, I know an INFP who might well be autistic.

    We both jokingly suggested that we must both be "secretly autistic", but... I never gave it much serious thought. Hmm. I know I'm not autistic because I was very responsive as a child, and loved being hugged. As for her, a lot of her traits sound potentially autistic, but her behaviour around people is too... natural? She helps with tourist information where she lives, plus she works as a cashier. Both demanding people skills. Argh, now my over-active imagination is going to be reading "autistic traits" into her behaviour. Nice one.
    Okay, this post might help you stop. One of my friends has been told by an educational psychologist (who was reassessing her for specific learning disabilities, not AS) that she has AS traits, and she doesn't seem impaired in any way that bothers her. I mean, people misjudge her often - as miserable or aloof because she usually wears one facial expression and holds a level tone of voice, or as badly mannered or ungrateful, especially at first - but not badly enough to outright accuse her of being rude, and she doesn't really seem to notice. That's what I mean by borderline autistic: no impairment or distress yet, just noticeably different in ways shared by autists. She has many friends and hates to have to amuse herself alone for any period of time, and so far in her life at least, doesn't seem less capable of anything she's tried as a result of the traits she has.

    The fact is though, having to feign sympathy because you prefer not to get immersed in other people's feelings and can deliberately limit the degree of empathy you engage in (like many Ts, for example, or highly emotional or depression-prone people, or people with certain kinds of upbringings) is different to having to feign sympathy because you are genuinely less capable of seeing or imagining how other people feel than is reasonably expected. Someone might be in the latter category with or without warranting a diagnosis of autism; that's not really the point. Their brain may still, in that one respect, work in the same way and have to be understood in that way. That's why I brought it up. With people who are doing and feeling fine, it doesn't matter about the label so much as pinning down and understanding the process behind what you're observing.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    That's funny because I think the article she quoted had it exactly backwards. Empathy is the one that's about "being" another person, sympathy is more like just feeling bad that they feel bad.
    I don't know. I'll think about it when there is less vodka flowing threw me. I'm more interested in pointing out that I experience the feelings of others and a feeling of empathy but don't feel the need to express it.

  9. #79
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Thanks, CR (I don't know what else to call you). I will give your advice a lot more thought (naturally), which goes against your intention. We haven't been going out that long, but if it gets to the point of "seriousness", then I'll begin to consider speculating a plan of action. In all seriousness though, I've taken what you said on board.
    Last edited by Grungemouse; 11-08-2009 at 12:11 PM.
    Um, yeah.

  10. #80
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    Hmmm... as a child, teenager and possibly a young adult I was not the most empathetic person. However, as a middle age woman, I am alot more empathetic than I was in my younger days. I have had many struggles during marriage, having kids with special needs, caregiving for elderly parents, etc. As long as I have experienced what someone is going through, I am exceptionally empathetic. Otherwise, I can come across as a bit callous. I'm not good at pretending. And you are right, she may just be BSing you. Sometimes it's embarressing to feel for and care for someone who is not as demonstrative of their feelings in return. Maybe she is just trying to look tough to be like you. Does she know you are attracted to sensitive personalities?

    Finally, I can come across as a cold turd when I am feeling deep pain. I don't want to express that pain to someone; I don't like to cry in front of someone. For instance, my elderly parents are moving far away in two days to an assisted living facility near my brother. I have been living with this knife in my chest for the past 2 weeks as moving day draws near. Yet my mother keeps telling my sister how I don't appear to care a bit. That could be further from the truth. My heart is breaking in two.

    Anyway, good luck. Hope you get to know her better and can get a true picture of who she is and isn't.

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