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[MBTI General] ESFP & ISTP

2XtremeENFP

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Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
446
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
3w4
Haven't posted in this SP forum much, but I need some advice to give my friend..

She's an ESxP (pretty positive it's F, but she takes pride in the fact that she's always referred to as a 'b*tch') and she's dating her long time friend of 8 years, an ISTP.

I am not too knowledgeable about ISTPs, and I need to know some things about them.

Their relationship seems to be failing. He's way too 'careless' 'unemotional' 'uncaring'. He never enjoys himself, especially if we do ANYTHING that involves people. Nothing to him is ever fun, or worthwhile. If you spend a day with him, I can't tell you how many times you hear him critique someone/something or talk about how annoying something is. He is a cloud of bitterness.

They never do anything besides hang out at his house. She thinks of cute dates or even dates that are 'guy-ish' that he still won't do. He thinks they're dumb, pointless, or too expensive. Even cheap-no-cost dates are out of the question--like taking a walk through a park!!

Now, their big problem is him not letting her in emotionally. They also see each other only 2 times a week, and they live only about 15 minutes away. He never ever invited her over, she always has to invite herself. He doesn't act like he cares about her. If he has a bad day at work, he doesn't want to see her. She worries that if she never asked to come over, she would never ever see him.

When they argue, he gives her a run around. "There's no point in arguing. I love you" is his main phrase. Or "What's the point of arguing, this happened one time..." So its like he fails to see her point of view, or even chooses to ignore whatever conflict occurs.

Is this typical of ISTPs? Is this just him? Is she not understanding ISTPs? Is there something I could give her to help her?
 

Coeur

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Jul 13, 2009
Messages
237
MBTI Type
INFP
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4w5
Well, regardless of his type, she should dump him if she is unsatisfied.

Nonetheless, I have a close ISTP friend. I'll try to give some insights.

Their relationship seems to be failing. He's way too 'careless' 'unemotional' 'uncaring'.

I'd say those are typical issues with ISTPs.

He never enjoys himself, especially if we do ANYTHING that involves people. Nothing to him is ever fun, or worthwhile. If you spend a day with him, I can't tell you how many times you hear him critique someone/something or talk about how annoying something is. He is a cloud of bitterness.

My ISTP friend tells it how it is. He doesn't sugarcoat anything and can come across as mean and insensitive. Nonetheless, there isn't anything bitter about it. That isn't a type thing; that's a personal flaw.

They never do anything besides hang out at his house. She thinks of cute dates or even dates that are 'guy-ish' that he still won't do. He thinks they're dumb, pointless, or too expensive. Even cheap-no-cost dates are out of the question--like taking a walk through a park!!

That's odd. I know that my ISTP friend is opposed to PDA. However, he never has a problem going out. He loves being outside. That may be a personal flaw as well.

Now, their big problem is him not letting her in emotionally. They also see each other only 2 times a week, and they live only about 15 minutes away. He never ever invited her over, she always has to invite herself. He doesn't act like he cares about her. If he has a bad day at work, he doesn't want to see her. She worries that if she never asked to come over, she would never ever see him.

That sounds more familiar. 2 times a week is a lot for some ISTPs. They require a lot of space. My ISTP appreciated his girlfriend because he could go several days without calling her and she wouldn't take it personally. When their emotions are high, like on bad days at work, they handle it by isolating themselves. I don't believe that is personal.

I also used to worry that I would never see my ISTP friend if I stopped messaging him, since I almost always initiated communication. Then, there was this one incident where I contacted him after several weeks of silence. He said something on the lines of: "Wow, it's been awhile since I've heard from you! That's weird!" I was surprised that he had noticed, and wondered: "if he had been so bothered by it, why didn't he contact me himself?" o_O Nonetheless... as our relationship progressed, he got a lot better at initiating get togethers.

When they argue, he gives her a run around. "There's no point in arguing. I love you" is his main phrase. Or "What's the point of arguing, this happened one time..." So its like he fails to see her point of view, or even chooses to ignore whatever conflict occurs.

This sounds familiar too. They see things extremely objectively and impersonally. No matter how much I emotionalize a situation, my friend doesn't join in. He will just bluntly state his opinion if I ask for it. He has no tolerance of drama and does nothing to add to it. Things don't bother him the way that they bother most people. I would recommend to clearly state what is bothering you, why it is bothering you, and what you want him to do. They generaly respect boundaries. Although my ISTP friend doesn't match my level of effusiveness, he's able to see my point of view objectively and adjust accordingly.

Hope that helps! :)
 

2XtremeENFP

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Jul 23, 2008
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446
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ENFP
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3w4
Thank you SO much!! I appreciate that you commented on all that I noted. That makes sense to me as you explained it further.

Your ISTP friend.. his girlfriend-- what was her type? I'm just curious to see what types aren't affected by ISTPs distance in relationships.

I agree, I think she should break up with him, but she doesn't want that. She can't really give me details as to why she thinks it can work though..
 

Coeur

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Jul 13, 2009
Messages
237
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Thank you SO much!! I appreciate that you commented on all that I noted. That makes sense to me as you explained it further.

Glad to help! :))

Your ISTP friend.. his girlfriend-- what was her type? I'm just curious to see what types aren't affected by ISTPs distance in relationships.

ENFP, maybe??

I agree, I think she should break up with him, but she doesn't want that. She can't really give me details as to why she thinks it can work though..

Huh... in that case we'll just work with what we have.
Basically:
1. Have her explain her emotions in a clear, objective manner. Have her [nonaggressively] state what she wants. Don't assume that he SHOULD know something to do with politeness or feelings. He legitimately might not see it that way and not understand why people are getting upset.
2. Have her change HER ideas of what a guy in love would want or would do. That will make her feel unloved, which most likely isn't the case. Have her focus on his good points. He may not be emotional, but at least he doesn't overreact and start fights. Etc.
3. As for getting him outside... Maybe find outings that correlate with his interests? Maybe he needs to see why something is worthwhile before doing it. There needs to be a reason. Why would he go outside when he could just as easily bond with her in the house with expending less energy? ISTPs can be lazy. This reminds me of my ISTP/J father.
Me: "Can I hang out with my friend?" [I would get there on my own... take care of myself... etc]
Him: No.
Me: Why not?
Him: Because.
Me: Is there a reason?
Him: It's unneccessary.
You see, as an engineer, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of love and community as a valid reason in itself. x__x When I explained that she as going through some troubles and that she needed my support, he let me go. He just had to have a reason.
 

man

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Sep 16, 2009
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330
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IntP
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=)
He sounds like a dumbass.
 

Rachelinpa

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Aug 4, 2008
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ENFP
He's way too 'careless' 'unemotional' 'uncaring'. He never enjoys himself, especially if we do ANYTHING that involves people. Nothing to him is ever fun, or worthwhile. If you spend a day with him, I can't tell you how many times you hear him critique someone/something or talk about how annoying something is. He is a cloud of bitterness.

He sounds like a dumbass.

agreed.
 

Bamboo

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Jan 28, 2009
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She should dump him.

They were friends for 8 years? Why? He sounds like a jerk - details are missing here.

He's probably depressed. He needs his head sorted out.
 

2XtremeENFP

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He wasn't like this during their friendship/beginning stages of dating. He would do whatever she wanted. They hung out every day, he went out with her friends, you name it. But, the moment they were exclusively dating and official he stopped. She confronted him about the transformation and he simply said "I was trying to date you. I wanted to go out because you were going out. Now I have you so I don't have to do that stuff anymore"

o_O
 

mcmartinez84

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Oct 25, 2007
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650
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ISTP
She should dump him.

They were friends for 8 years? Why? He sounds like a jerk - details are missing here.

He's probably depressed. He needs his head sorted out.

I think I agree with that right there. He may not admit it, he may not even suspect it. But I think he's probably down about something... :(
 

2XtremeENFP

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I think I agree with that right there. He may not admit it, he may not even suspect it. But I think he's probably down about something... :(

Interesting... I can see this too with some personal details I know about him...
Is there a way my ESFP friend can suggest him getting help? Will this backfire? I could see him denying it and thinking that whatever depressed feeling he may have (regardless if he admits it or not) is stupid and he won't want to acknowledge that its even a possibility. Since he thrives on letting everyone know how apathetic he is about people and life in general.
 

mcmartinez84

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Interesting... I can see this too with some personal details I know about him...
Is there a way my ESFP friend can suggest him getting help? Will this backfire? I could see him denying it and thinking that whatever depressed feeling he may have (regardless if he admits it or not) is stupid and he won't want to acknowledge that its even a possibility. Since he thrives on letting everyone know how apathetic he is about people and life in general.

I think suggesting a shrink visit would most definitely backfire. Honestly, what cheers me up most is finding a fun activity I can do with people I like being around...something that would be repeated, like a sport or video game online with friends. Time consuming, good company. Maybe a "new" TV show with lots of episodes out that someone else was interested in watching too. Weekly movie night? Cooking together? Obviously keeping these activities cheap given his previous commentary... Something that strikes his interest, which might be hard to find :(
 

Willfrey

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IsTP
While I have never claimed to be a Casanova, I still have enough social tact express how I feel to others one way or another. Does this guy even realize it is a relationship? Or is this like a close friends + benefits arrangement? The fact that she has to invite herself over leads me to believe something else is going on, like perhaps the ISTP's love interest is somewhere else.

Also on a side note for your friend, and it may just be me, but I hate it when people self-apply the word bitch all proud-like. People who are 'too real' and 'speak their mind' have no sense of tact or restraint, or just revel in creating drama (I didn't like him SO I TOLD HIM HOW IT WAS YO)
 

2XtremeENFP

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Does this guy even realize it is a relationship?

Yep. It's official. Exclusive. Committed. He chased after her and he wanted a relationship with her and then it seems he just stopped on a dime after it became official.

Martinez, you have some great suggestions. We do have a weekly event where we all meet as friends for a fun night where we just hang out together. But I like the idea of maybe it being routine of something that They do as a couple.. and yeah.. it'll be a challenge to find something that he will enjoy.
 

mcmartinez84

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ISTP
Yep. It's official. Exclusive. Committed. He chased after her and he wanted a relationship with her and then it seems he just stopped on a dime after it became official.

Martinez, you have some great suggestions. We do have a weekly event where we all meet as friends for a fun night where we just hang out together. But I like the idea of maybe it being routine of something that They do as a couple.. and yeah.. it'll be a challenge to find something that he will enjoy.

Thanks!
I know we're supposed to hate routine... But if I have something fun to look forward to on a given schedule, it'll make the boring time pass all the faster. Plus, it'll get me to actually do something or get things done. Might even give me a sense of accomplishment :D
 

Bamboo

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He wasn't like this during their friendship/beginning stages of dating. He would do whatever she wanted. They hung out every day, he went out with her friends, you name it. But, the moment they were exclusively dating and official he stopped. She confronted him about the transformation and he simply said "I was trying to date you. I wanted to go out because you were going out. Now I have you so I don't have to do that stuff anymore"

o_O

Haha well he certainly has good work ethic ;). Maybe he thinks of her as property, and now he owns her. Not good. She shouldn't put up with that.

Coeur has some good points on this.

I think suggesting a shrink visit would most definitely backfire. Honestly, what cheers me up most is finding a fun activity I can do with people I like being around...something that would be repeated, like a sport or video game online with friends. Time consuming, good company. Maybe a "new" TV show with lots of episodes out that someone else was interested in watching too. Weekly movie night? Cooking together? Obviously keeping these activities cheap given his previous commentary... Something that strikes his interest, which might be hard to find :(

These seem good. Emphasis on doing stuff together.



Also, I'd point out that this thread is being dominated by the midwest. Good work, you middle of the country folk.
 

tetsuwanatom

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Sep 11, 2009
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He sounds like a dumbass.


+ 2


Honestly, this guy sounds like a jerk.
Space, whatever, my ass. He doesn't even sound like he's having any fun with his gf. It even sounds like he DOESN'T want to have a gf.
In fact, it sounds like an ISTP with denial issues, who doesn't want to face and confront his own feelings and also the feelings of other people, therefore hides behind this dumbass persona. It's passive aggressive, man!!
 

ChocolateMoose123

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He wasn't like this during their friendship/beginning stages of dating. He would do whatever she wanted. They hung out every day, he went out with her friends, you name it. But, the moment they were exclusively dating and official he stopped. She confronted him about the transformation and he simply said "I was trying to date you. I wanted to go out because you were going out. Now I have you so I don't have to do that stuff anymore"

o_O

He does sound like a dumbass. An arrogant one.

:shock: Well at least he's honest. But he may need to be "reminded" of what made him jump through hoops in the first place. Maybe he should be reminded that he may have her now but that doesn't mean he couldn't lose her tomorrow if he doesn't start putting effort into the relationship. (let the games begin! :devil:) I don't know their dynamic so it's hard to comment on.
 

sLiPpY

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Reading through, I don't think that the boyfriend is an ISTP... My guess would be an
INTP, or some other form of NT.

ISTP's are naturally optimistic, impulsive and adventerous...more social than almost
any other introverted type. We do like our recharge time, and don't demand to be
the center of attention...but we do like to be active and have fun.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
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Reading through, I don't think that the boyfriend is an ISTP... My guess would be an
INTP, or some other form of NT.

ISTP's are naturally optimistic, impulsive and adventerous...more social than almost
any other introverted type. We do like our recharge time, and don't demand to be
the center of attention...but we do like to be active and have fun.

I was thinking the same thing. Once I get used to someone, they tend to "fade into the background" after a while. Not to the extent of this situation, but I could see an INTP or INTJ acting like him. Not to be bias, but the latter seems more probable. INTPs, as I know, are usually giddy when relationships are new and fresh. Weak Fe spatters everywhere. INTJs are far less affectionate.
 
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