[ISTP] ISTp/j questioning motives and other stuff?

[BerberElla]

Myself and 2 close female friends have all broken up from LTR's with this type, and found many of our experiences eerily similar in the issues we faced.

My 2 friends were with ISTP's, and I was with a suspected ISTJ (I wonder now though, based on comparisons and further reading if he was infact closer to an ISTP).

The issues we faced that strike as equal were:

1 - Having our motives questioned alot. An example would be that my ex husband asked me what my favourite dish was, I replied and then was accused of merely saying I liked the same dish as him to impress him, even though he had yet to say what favourite dish his was, and it was just a coincidence. Or my friend to be asked by her ex ISTP what music she liked, and to then be accused of merely saying it to impress him. Again my other friend reports a similar experience.

2 - To be accused of lying all the time, even when there was proof that it was not a lie, and infact there was no reason to suspect a lie.

3 - To invent the most ridiculous accusations ever, example: I am half english, my mother is white. All 3 of us, my ex, my real mother and myself went to dinner together. It was a nice evening, that ended with him accusing me of hiring a white woman to pretend she was my mother because I was ashamed of being moroccan and wanted to hide it. When I attempted to show him my birth certificate, he flat out refused to look at it.
My friend reports that for her, her ISTP accused her of faking who she was, ie false name, false background, and refused to look at the evidence proving him wrong. Third friend reports that her ISTP partner accused her of pretending that she couldn't drive merely to seem more helpless to help attract a mate, when infact she can't drive.

4 - Suspecting intentions, ie try to do something nice and be accused of being up to something.

I mean there is no need to go on, but there are many points where the ludicrous accusations seem to come straight out of a book that they all studied from, even though they are all from different backgrounds, different cultures and had no contact ever in life.

The main thing was constantly suspecting the motives of everything, not being able to step back and listen to what is being said, putting a negative twist on everything. Having no factual recall whatsoever ie claiming to have not said/did something incredibly hurtful and cruel or violent, regardless of how many witnesses step forward.

Seriously, it's just insane.

Obviously there are many balanced istp's at this forum, without seeing that I probably would have developed a negative impression of them in total.

Still though, it's fascinating to me to see how alike our experiences were, and of course I would now like to hear your thoughts on what you think made these particular IST's behave this way?

My friend is an esfp and the other is an isfj, and of course my type is under my av.

 

[rhinosaur]

I think you made this thread just to get a reaction out of us. Is that the kind of "calling motives into question" you were talking about?


I think it comes from some kind of "misplaced distrust" in unhealthy ISTPs. There was something I read once that says tertiary Ni can come out as suspicion and questioning motives. The article didn't say so but I think that unhealthy ISTPs just let it run wild, instead of filtering out when it's inappropriate to use it. Note that this questioning motives like this can be healthy sometimes, such as the sixth sense I get when someone's trying to scam me. Also this is only one facet of Ni+Fe.

 

[Poki]

I am a big time observer. I dont question motives, I dont question lies, or intentions. I generally follow Se and go with the flow.

Here is the tertiary temptation for ISTP

I can't possibly go along with this, 'cuz it's all a lie. It's all a set-up by the Man. I'd just be serving his interests and not my own. I'm not gonna be suckered by all this self-serving bull. No way, man, I gotta go my own way." The Secondary Function would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now.

Here is ISTJ

I can't possibly go along with this, because it would mar my soul. It's not 'me'. I am a good person, and in order to maintain my integrity, I need to steer clear of this. This is the responsibility of those other people: it emerges from their souls, not mine, so it's their problem." The Secondary Function would say: "Do something. Take responsibility even if no one gave it to you, and go after some tangible gain right now, within the limits of the situation and your current understanding. That will improve your position, after which you can re-assess and plot a new course.

You notice that both get the impression that something is up. I woud like to say I am a fairly healthy ISTP. I spend alot of time in Se and go with the flow. I have personally been in the spot where I have questioned intentions and motivations, but I ignore the temptation and go with the flow and just see what happens.

 

[lane777]

I've known two ISTP's. The first friendship was spectacular. All we did was laugh all the time (one of the few types that understands my humor). We never had any issues. He even opened up to me about a family crisis and asked for prayer - unafraid to get a bit emotional too (yes, he was a very healthy ISTP).

The issues we faced that strike as equal were:

1 - Having our motives questioned alot.

3 - To invent the most ridiculous accusations ever.

On the flip-side, I recently befriended an extremely unhealthy and neurotic ISTP (abuses drugs, is a hermit, considers suicide). The above points you mentioned are regular practice for this ISTP. He is very easily stressed, and when stressed - incredibly irrational. Of course in cases like these, I understand that it's usually due to a serious inferiority complex (because he thinks so little of himself, he assumes everyone else does too.) It's sooo sad Over time I have seen improvement, simply because he's seeing for himself that I only have the best intentions, but he needs a lot of reassurance/affirmation.

 

[Twixt]

I am a big time observer. I dont question motives, I dont question lies, or intentions. I generally follow Se and go with the flow.

Here is the tertiary temptation for ISTP


Here is ISTJ


You notice that both get the impression that something is up. I woud like to say I am a fairly healthy ISTP. I spend alot of time in Se and go with the flow. I have personally been in the spot where I have questioned intentions and motivations, but I ignore the temptation and go with the flow and just see what happens.

poki -- where did you get those quotes from, did you write them yourself or copy/paste from somewhere? If you got them from a web, could you please post the URL? It sounds very interesting. Thanks!

To the OP: Yes, i think both IST types have a tendency to suspect dark motives.. Generally in unhealthy ISTxs this cynicism/skepticism could really just morph into determinedly negative delusion - but, the ISTx does not know that, because he/she thinks its the truth, the reality they're seeing. Everyone else is just sugar coating things, and the ISTx wants to jab them in their seats and go 'HEY, IDIOT, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You're not fooling anybody, so you can stop the act.'

However, if the ISTx is indeed being delusional that could just come off as crazy and very, very offensive. Sounds like you and your friends really bumped into awfully unhealthy ones...

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

BerberElla: Sorry that you went through that. That sucks.

I don't know what backgrounds these unhealthy ISTP's had but I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious neglectful/drug addict/abusive mom or dad situations. Just sayin.

 

[sLiPpY]

I think you made this thread just to get a reaction out of us. Is that the kind of "calling motives into question" you were talking about?


I think it comes from some kind of "misplaced distrust" in unhealthy ISTPs. There was something I read once that says tertiary Ni can come out as suspicion and questioning motives. The article didn't say so but I think that unhealthy ISTPs just let it run wild, instead of filtering out when it's inappropriate to use it. Note that this questioning motives like this can be healthy sometimes, such as the sixth sense I get when someone's trying to scam me. Also this is only one facet of Ni+Fe.

My guess is that all three scenarios are ISTJ's; also known as "The Thought Police."

 

[Willfrey]

3 - To invent the most ridiculous accusations ever, example: I am half english, my mother is white. All 3 of us, my ex, my real mother and myself went to dinner together. It was a nice evening, that ended with him accusing me of hiring a white woman to pretend she was my mother because I was ashamed of being moroccan and wanted to hide it. When I attempted to show him my birth certificate, he flat out refused to look at it.
My friend reports that for her, her ISTP accused her of faking who she was, ie false name, false background, and refused to look at the evidence proving him wrong. Third friend reports that her ISTP partner accused her of pretending that she couldn't drive merely to seem more helpless to help attract a mate, when infact she can't drive.

Seriously, it's just insane.

Good lord, you ran into a pair of winners.

When I was younger I'd get odd suspicions, I definitely had a trust no one attitude after having a falling out with a circle of supposedly close friends. But recently I know how neurotic my suspicions are and I don't really act on them.

 

[Rachelinpa]

my istp and i were talking about something along these lines last night. he would probably agree with poki:

I am a big time observer. I dont question motives, I dont question lies, or intentions. I generally follow Se and go with the flow.

in fact, we were discussing how he does this so much so that he often is shocked or blindsided by relational things (or stuff that is usually not on the surface--visible--concrete). he tends to trust people to a fault... what they say is what they mean. EVEN THOUGH, he should know this isn't true from experience. can't seem to shake that mindset.

 

[Rachelinpa]

although, come to think of it... i have an istp friend that may say something like this:

Third friend reports that her ISTP partner accused her of pretending that she couldn't drive merely to seem more helpless to help attract a mate, when infact she can't drive.

but, i really have a hard time believing that he actually would think that. i think he just says it to be annoying and then i get annoyed... and he kind of likes that.

 

[millerm277]

I would say we are:

-Naturally skeptical
-Not quick to trust people generally
-A bit cynical
-Occasionally a bit paranoid.

So, my personal opinion is that normal ISTP's are very much not like what you describe, but one that has something wrong, can easily become the person you describe, as we have a bit of a predisposition to it.

 

[Bamboo]

I can be distrustful of people's motives.

Sometimes, I can invent entirely logical but untrue back stories as to why or how something is happening. At my more paranoid moments, I'll get stuck on the fact that I can't actually disprove it, instead of just saying "that's ridiculous" and moving on.



Generally, these moments are a result of me trying to see things too black or white.

For example:
- they either are only pursuing their own interest, or they are selflessly trying to help me.

Of course, things aren't black or white. Chances are they are doing a bit of both. I remember this with the saying/idea: "Try and instead of or."

Simplified, human emotion* is a big gray zone, and no actions are truly for one purpose and one purpose only.



*emotion in this context meaning internal motivators to do actions

 

[Laurie]

The main thing was constantly suspecting the motives of everything, not being able to step back and listen to what is being said, putting a negative twist on everything.

I had a friend do this same thing (your whole post other than them being cruel) to me a few years ago. It was extremely bizarre. I told someone about this recently, actually. He stopped talking to me one day when I told him I thought he was attractive (his self esteem was so low he couldn't believe it) I said "I just was looking at your picture and thought.." But his picture was offline for a few hours, I used the term "just was" in a "recent time" sense. Because I was not perfect in what I said he decided I was lying to him. The whole thing was crazy - he sent me an email on how I was dead to him and never talked to me again. I took away from it the lesson of listening to "signs" in friendships, I saw red flags early on but the person was interesting so I stayed friends.

I really wouldn't peg him as ISTP but I guess it's possible. It seems more "unhealthy person" than "personality trait"

Now that I'm thinking about it, someone who is married to an ISTP I know deals with stuff like that all the time, but two other ISTPs I know aren't like that at all, they are relaxed and pointed toward having fun. I wonder what breaks down to cause that to happen.