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    Senior Member Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P.'s Avatar
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    Default Temperaments vs. Keirsey

    I wanted to be clear on some things. Is one better than the other? Are the middle letters useless? who thought of the temperaments anyway, and why aren't they widely recognized?
    And there I stood... The devil of a command that featured death...

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P. View Post
    I wanted to be clear on some things. Is one better than the other? Are the middle letters useless? who thought of the temperaments anyway, and why aren't they widely recognized?
    What are you talking about? I thought temperaments were Keirsey's idea? The whole SP/SJ/NT/NF thing? Or are you talking about SF/ST/NT/NF when you say temperament?

  3. #3
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Keirsey Temperament Website

    That should answer most of your questions, and for others' opinions on Keirsey's work, you can search "Keirsey Temperament Theory" and get many opinions on it from various sources.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    What are you talking about? I thought temperaments were Keirsey's idea? The whole SP/SJ/NT/NF thing? Or are you talking about SF/ST/NT/NF when you say temperament?
    Sorry, I looked up the info you and the other user talked about and it seemed to go by the name of temperaments. Yeah, Keirsey's were temperaments as well. I'm talking about the first and last letters being used to describe a person's behaviour.

    Thanks Jeffster!
    And there I stood... The devil of a command that featured death...

  5. #5
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P. View Post
    Sorry, I looked up the info you and the other user talked about and it seemed to go by the name of temperaments. Yeah, Keirsey's were temperaments as well. I'm talking about the first and last letters being used to describe a person's behaviour.

    Thanks Jeffster!
    Oh.

    You mean IJ/IP/EJ/EP vs. SJ/SP/NT/NF? Yeah, I think the bookend letters are more valuable than Keirsey, because it tells you HOW they use their functions, rather than WHAT functions they use, which is easier to tell upon meeting someone. It's easier to figure out someone's basic "style" than what's behind it. In certain situations, an INFJ could look like an ISTJ, or an ESTP could look like an ENFP, etc... it goes on.

    It's easier for me to see:

    IJ - reserved, serious and focused

    IP - quiet, a little impulsive, but open

    EJ - strong presence, somewhat open, focused

    EP - somewhat haphazard and goofy, rather expressive and absorbed in their surroundings, very open

    I see these all the time. I never see SJ/SP/NF/NT in other people unless I get to know them really well, and sometimes not even then. That's been my experience.

    Most of the SPs disagree with me, but maybe it's because they get vibes I don't get from people, and I get vibes they don't.

  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Keirsey thought that those particular groupings most matched with the four personality types of many previous systems.

    Not only is that arguable in and of itself, but it's also not a very good reason to do something. I have never liked his system and I find it illogical.

    There are all sorts of practical ways to group types though. Looky here.

    Ugh... I might be building up a terrible track record of linking to my own work more than any other user.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Oh.

    You mean IJ/IP/EJ/EP vs. SJ/SP/NT/NF? Yeah, I think the bookend letters are more valuable than Keirsey, because it tells you HOW they use their functions, rather than WHAT functions they use, which is easier to tell upon meeting someone. It's easier to figure out someone's basic "style" than what's behind it. In certain situations, an INFJ could look like an ISTJ, or an ESTP could look like an ENFP, etc... it goes on.

    It's easier for me to see:

    IJ - reserved, serious and focused

    IP - quiet, a little impulsive, but open

    EJ - strong presence, somewhat open, focused

    EP - somewhat haphazard and goofy, rather expressive and absorbed in their surroundings, very open

    I see these all the time. I never see SJ/SP/NF/NT in other people unless I get to know them really well, and sometimes not even then. That's been my experience.

    Most of the SPs disagree with me, but maybe it's because they get vibes I don't get from people, and I get vibes they don't.
    I like the ones you posted, they make sense. Both have merit.

  8. #8
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Keirsey thought that those particular groupings most matched with the four personality types of many previous systems.

    Not only is that arguable in and of itself, but it's also not a very good reason to do something. I have never liked his system and I find it illogical.

    There are all sorts of practical ways to group types though. Looky here.

    Ugh... I might be building up a terrible track record of linking to my own work more than any other user.
    Meh...I think he used them because they encapsulated his word/tool usage styles the best. The Keirsey temperaments make sense in a system without functions and a system based on using behavior to type others. When you look at what Keirsey thinks define types [Abstract vs Concrete, Utilitarian vs. Cooperative] his temperaments make sense.

    Now, if you inherently think cognitive function usage is more important than cataloguing expressed behavior, then I think something like SP, SJ, NP, NJ works better because of how functions work.

    While I think there is value in functions, I think Keirsey's methods are the most accurate for observationally typing others, because there's less guesswork as to someone's inner workings and more emphasis on what you see and can verify.



  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Meh...I think he used them because they encapsulated his word/tool usage styles the best. The Keirsey temperaments make sense in a system without functions and a system based on using behavior to type others. When you look at what Keirsey thinks define types [Abstract vs Concrete, Utilitarian vs. Cooperative] his temperaments make sense.

    Now, if you inherently think cognitive function usage is more important than cataloguing expressed behavior, then I think something like SP, SJ, NP, NJ works better because of how functions work.

    While I think there is value in functions, I think Keirsey's methods are the most accurate for observationally typing others, because there's less guesswork as to someone's inner workings and more emphasis on what you see and can verify.
    I've heard that argument over and over, and I still don't think it makes any sense. Why does everyone keep asserting the truth of something I can't see?

  10. #10
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've heard that argument over and over, and I still don't think it makes any sense. Why does everyone keep asserting the truth of something I can't see?
    Why not? You can see abstract vs concrete word usage in language and examples, and can tend to detect a cooperative vs utilitarian bent to how people approach things, far easier than you can detect fuzzy function processes inside someone's mind.



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