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  1. #1
    Senior Member Coeur's Avatar
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    Default My current issue with my ISTP friend

    I'll just go right into it. For those that remember my previous thread, that this is the same ISTP that I suspected liked me before.

    We have been friends for two years. We nearly went out at the beginning of our relationship, but I told him that we couldn't because of moral differences. We remained friends: seeing each other occasionally because he lives an hour away, and texting on an almost daily basis. I've always carried the torch for him, and I've always suspected that he still has feelings for me.

    He got a girlfriend and stayed with her for 8 months, which is rare for him because he's more of the womanizing, hookup type. They knew FOR A FACT, from the start, that they'd breakup before he went off to college out of state. He is an epic failure at long distance relationships. [At the moment, I don't think that they've officially broken up yet, even though he's gone.]

    He saw me under a week before he left. We madeout. He seemed really into it. He made it clear verbally that he's liked me for a long time [in his own, SPish way]. This entire situation- I now realize- is bad and completely unfair to his girlfriend. I justified it at the time because they were for sure going to breakup. Now, I see things differently.

    Now... the issue. This is possibly an NF/SP discrepancy, but it is driving me crazy. I'm not going to post every intricate detail, but I'll give generalizations. I also realize how clingy and desperate this entire post makes me sound, but at the moment I'm more indignant than hurt.

    -He doesn't answer most of my text messages. He'll maybe respond to 1/3 of them, and only if I have a 'hook', like "guess what??" I always initiate the conversation. I always have to propel the conversation. I am tired of this. I became especially tired of it when I sat by the phone hoping he would contact me after our little incident. I became even more tired of it after several unsuccessful attempts to contact him, earning a response only after: "can we talk?"

    -We never really talked about what occurred. When I attempted to, he gave me a couple of short answers and gave me some bullcrap response about "I need to focus on work." We both know that if he wanted to talk about it, he would. We both know that he texts during work all of the time and that he is not suddenly devoted to his job. Now, I didn't expect a full-length movie scene about our feelings, but I DID have some things that I wanted to clarify. I am now rendered unable to open up to him.

    -Additionally, we had something that [at least, I felt like] seriously needed to be discussed. I made it clear I was upset and wanted to talk about it. He simply phased out of the conversation and stopped answering my messages. The issue is still not resolved. It will lie dormant forever.

    -Every time I DID try to express my feelings, he kicked me in the stomach.
    Example.
    Me: "You do know that I've liked you like...forever, right?"
    Him: "Ah. Sorry, we can't date. I'm going out of state."
    Me: "I got that... I'm just telling you."

    I figured that no relationship would come of what happened. Thats not why Im upset. I did NOT expect that he would be as emotionally distant as he is now. I don't know what his problem is, but I feel extremely undervalued. I suppose that the synopsis of this situation is: he isnt into you. I don't care about that. The point is... were good friends! This is all angering me so much, but I feel like there's a stone fortress around him.

    I personally feel like he's being unfair to me, but I want an SP point of view. Also, [in an attempt to make this post relevant to everyone], what are common issues in NF/SP relationships, and how can they be avoided/fixed?
    Everybody needs love.

  2. #2
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    -He doesn't answer most of my text messages. He'll maybe respond to 1/3 of them, and only if I have a 'hook', like "guess what??" I always initiate the conversation. I always have to propel the conversation. I am tired of this. I became especially tired of it when I sat by the phone hoping he would contact me after our little incident. I became even more tired of it after several unsuccessful attempts to contact him, earning a response only after: "can we talk?"
    I've never know it to be common for I type men to initiate constant contact. Isn't part of being an introvert, being averse to constant social contact? My INFP ex hardly ever initiated written or phone contact, and my ISTJ husband rarely does either. They were both quite content with being left alone, and sometimes even not responding when spoken to.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    -We never really talked about what occurred. When I attempted to, he gave me a couple of short answers and gave me some bullcrap response about "I need to focus on work." We both know that if he wanted to talk about it, he would. We both know that he texts during work all of the time and that he is not suddenly devoted to his job. Now, I didn't expect a full-length movie scene about our feelings, but I DID have some things that I wanted to clarify. I am now rendered unable to open up to him.
    ISTP types are one of the least concerned with the quality of their relationships according to the book "Just Your Type", and INFPs are one of the most concerned. I'm thinking this isn't an SP/NF difference so much as it is an ISTP/INFP difference. ISTPs love to work with and on tools, INFPs relationships. There is a fundamental difference in focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    -Additionally, we had something that [at least, I felt like] seriously needed to be discussed. I made it clear I was upset and wanted to talk about it. He simply phased out of the conversation and stopped answering my messages. The issue is still not resolved. It will lie dormant forever.
    See above. You're concerned with improving the relationship/friendship, and he likely could careless or see no need for what you are doing. The SP part of him may have moved from the issue(if he ever felt there was one), but the NF part of you wants to talk about it and "resolve" it because it still festers within.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    -Every time I DID try to express my feelings, he kicked me in the stomach.
    Example.
    Me: "You do know that I've liked you like...forever, right?"
    Him: "Ah. Sorry, we can't date. I'm going out of state."
    Me: "I got that... I'm just telling you."
    Sounds like he thinks you are attempting to close the deal on him, and he just wants to make sure that you understand where he stands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    The point is... were good friends! This is all angering me so much, but I feel like there's a stone fortress around him.
    If he really feels like you are good friends, then he will come around in his own way. Give him some time. I know it's hard because as NFs we are so compelled to try and resolve what we see to be relationship conflicts. Sometimes though, there isn't any conflict, and we are wrong about our perceptions. Sometimes, there isn't any relationship, and the other person doesn't hold the feelings for us that we believe they do(as friends or lovers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    I personally feel like he's being unfair to me, but I want an SP point of view. Also, [in an attempt to make this post relevant to everyone], what are common issues in NF/SP relationships, and how can they be avoided/fixed?

    I personally love SPs, and get along great with them. They satisfy my need for adventure, a fast paced lifestyle, action, fun, laughs, and no drama. My first love was an ISTP, and we had a great time together. Our biggest issue was that neither of us would ever initiate the relationship, so it ended up being a romantic friendship over the course of far too many years. He also had a violent streak(and some issues with the things that came out of his mouth), and hit a LT girlfriend a few times. He never acted like that with me, but I friend zoned him for good after that.

    Strangely, around SP types, the neurotic aspects of my NF side(constant desire to "fix" the relationship, and "communicate deeply") die down. If they didn't, I'm sure I would feel neglected. With SPs, I am usually so into just "living life", that moving forward and on is very easy. So I'd say, it's not all about type, it's also about personal needs.

    You are likely never to find an ISTP who would desire to just sit around and talk about the relationship. You're better off doing things with them that are fun and active if you want to reconnect. Don't expect them to use lots of words either, cause from what I've seen they are short and very much to the point.

    If he is a thrill seeker, invite him white water rafting or skydiving or something along those lines. Go hiking or camping. Let him show you how to build something. My ISTP friend taught me how to build bonfires when we were teenagers. The typical way for us NFPs to reconnect is through talk and emoting, but that's not the way STPs are(and especially not I types).

    Try to satisfy your need to emote and connect linguistically with others, and not him. Appreciate those things he brings to your life, and don't expect of him things that just aren't likely to happen and that are more about his own personality than you. You may push him away if you start to get too emotionally invested and demanding.

  3. #3
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    I personally feel like he's being unfair to me, but I want an SP point of view.
    Okay, I'll try. But what exactly do you want a point of view on? Whether it's unfair for him to not respond to all your text messages or want to talk about his feelings?

    Also, [in an attempt to make this post relevant to everyone], what are common issues in NF/SP relationships, and how can they be avoided/fixed?
    These sites have a little bit of info about that.:

    Experiencers SP
    (NF)Empathist & (SP)Realist

    I've talked in a few different threads on here about my own experiences in relationships with NF women. The most common "issues" I guess have been that they have tended to project an image onto me of someone they want me to be instead of seeing me for who I really am. Then when the bubble burst and the infatuation period was over, I was no longer interesting to them and pretty much discarded.
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  4. #4
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    I'd say he's just trying to avoid the implications of it all. He made out with you on a whim, impulsively, as we are prone to do. Now he doesn't want to be entangled in a situation he can't act on. You're only making him feel as if the web is closing tighter around him.

    My best advice is to just take it easy, lay off and don't text as much and just make casual conversation when you do text to let him know that you're not trying to make it about a relationship or lack thereof.

    I can't guarantee he'll ever want to talk about what happened, but give it time at least. Most SPs don't do the long-distance thing very well, maybe the extroverts better but you probably won't find the introverted ones going out of their way to make sure the connection is solid. (Incidentally I've had trouble with this, too, although I've given others the same kind of trouble! ay yi yi )

    Maybe if you tell him you don't want to start a relationship since he's far away but that all you wanted to know, if and when he's comfortable, is what he thought about it and you guys' relationship, he might be willing to talk about it sooner or later. But make sure this is after plenty of casual conversation over at the very least a couple of days or more, maybe a week, depending (I know that might be hard for you) and that you give him plenty of time and space to get back to you and you ask what he thinks about it and not what he "feels" about it.

    Those three things will be way more likely to get you a better response.

    Also... you might want to email that question rather than text. Texting is so immediate it'll probly seem like it's asking for an immediate response. Emailing allows for something longer-term.
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  5. #5
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    He has strong feelings about what happened and thats why he has limited his contact

    Also trying to probe a emotional response from an ISTP like in your example is never a good idea, ISTPs need to feel very comfortable before revealing anything of the emotional nature and anything they reveal needs to be treated with respect and care

    One other thing is while ISTPs are comfortable talking via the internet, text or over the phone they are almost TOO comfortable. To have a real impact on an ISTP you have to be talking in person

    Actions speak louder than words to an ISTP, talking about these things is often seen as unnecessary as what happens happens and only the 'current moment' is important

  6. #6
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    yeah just talking about the relationship does nothing for me. It's kind of insulting to an ISTP to expect them to emote their feelings towards you.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Coeur's Avatar
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    Alright, so basically back off.

    I actually didn't contact him that much. There was a 4 day chunk of time when I was out of town and I didn't bring my phone with me. What was frustrating was being unable to reach him when I DID try to contact him, even if it was about nonemotional things such as when his classes start. He's perfectly capable of contacting me, but he CHOSE not too. That's what stung.

    I text him because it is our primary mode of converation. I'd talk to him in person, but he's out of state. We don't use email. I detest the phone and so does he.

    This is an apparently an INFP/ISTP issue, which I expected. Hopefully, that means that everything is fine and it's all in my head. Nonetheless, I feel somewhat neglected. I should be able to talk to someone without worrying about them emotionally withdrawing. I know he's a delicate ISTP and all, but I want some consistancy. I know that he cares about his girlfriend [they said they were going to breakup, but they might not], but he should have thought about that before he kissed me.

    Of course as an NF, I'd LOVE to have a general conversation about our relationship and our feelings. XD I always have, even when we were just friends. This isn't going to happen, but that's okay. I generally accept his SP tendancies, but this is an emotional situation and it made it harder for me to hold back. I don't feel like I should have to hold back. I'm not cornering him into an engagement, for goodness sake. I just hate that my emotions are soaring, and I have to ground them for no legitimate reason. My last boyfriend was an ENFP, so I'm used to constant demonstrativeness.
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  8. #8
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    I've always thought it mostly unnecessary to talk about a relationship myself. Unless there's an issue to deal with that can't be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeur View Post
    I just hate that my emotions are soaring, and I have to ground them for no legitimate reason. My last boyfriend was an ENFP, so I'm used to constant demonstrativeness.
    Ah, yeah. That's tough, but believe me, if you can figure out a way to shut your emotions off as efficiently as possible it'll be much easier in the long run. That's the secret to being an XSTP.

    Sometimes we fall hard, too, but if it doesn't work out we can figure out a way to turn the emotions off.
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  9. #9
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Sounds like you two have had a lot of communication breakdowns from the beginning.

    You were both interested in each other, but you called it off before it even began, on "moral" grounds- and thereby you both left the tension unresolved.

    Alright, I'm just going to call this as I see it: An "understanding" that they were going to break up = bullshit on the ISTP's part (possibly also on his gf's). People are either together because they want to be together or apart because it's not going to work out.

    In both these cases, there was a ... uncohesion between what was going to be *done* and what was being felt. Which lead us to the present:

    -Every time I DID try to express my feelings, he kicked me in the stomach.
    Example.
    Me: "You do know that I've liked you like...forever, right?"
    Him: "Ah. Sorry, we can't date. I'm going out of state."
    Me: "I got that... I'm just telling you."
    The intentions are all mixed. Saying "I've liked you" is an *incredibly* confusing message: Do you want to get together romantically? Do you want to be friends? Have the "moral" reasons for rejecting him been resolved?

    I think maybe you should preface with just the solution:"I want us to be friends. I want my friend back. And for us to be friends, I'd have to get a few things off my chest and clear the air a bit." (If that is in fact, your solution.) ISTP's respond well to solutions and "facts".

    I think he's treating you pretty poorly. And being an ISTP is no excuse or explanation. You might have to come to terms with what happened in the past all on your own. Which sucks, yeah.

    ETA: That came out more negatively than I intended. What I mean is that you've taken a big risk, shown lots of courage and character in now taking control of the situation to try and go honest. And you'll have that even if he doesn't respond in kind.

  10. #10
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    I definitely agree with Colors.
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