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Thread: Unhealthy ISTP

  1. #111
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Si in MBTI seems to be more about all the detail. I can spot an ISTJ man a mile off. They like to talk about a trip, an event and give detailed experience of what was going on. They will try to almost draw a picture of the event. I was eaves dropping(I like to listen to people just to listen) of 2 men talking and the guy was explaining his boating trip. He talked about the weather, the waves, the size of the boat, the movements, how it made him feel, its like he was trying to relive the event as he explained it.

    I dont have a desire to relive an event in my head, I want to physically live the event. This is what it means to be in the moment for me. I dont want to talk about the past and I dont get excited about the future of what could be, I get excited about what we are doing right now, how people feel right now.
    Yeah, I've found I'm great at this, along with remembering minute details which no one else even thinks to recall. My Si is probably insanely high.


    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I honestly think that both MBTI and socionics have ISTP kinda screwed up. ISTP types are experiencers, but not for the sense of doing, we love to learn things, this is Ti in action. When I dont understand something or need help I dont want to see how someone else did it, I dont want to be told how to do it, I want to understand what happened, how it works. I take things way to deep for casual conversation.
    This is interesting, sort of shows a difference between ISTP and ISTJ. I don't know about all ISTJs, but I learn better when I watch someone else do something. I am great at imitation, although I too hate to be told how to do something. I'd rather watch someone do something, then try to imitate them so I can learn. Get into the intricacies of how things work, and I start to get just a little impatient. I'm not that curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    This is interesting, sort of shows a difference between ISTP and ISTJ. I don't know about all ISTJs, but I learn better when I watch someone else do something. I am great at imitation, although I too hate to be told how to do something. I'd rather watch someone do something, then try to imitate them so I can learn. Get into the intricacies of how things work, and I start to get just a little impatient. I'm not that curious.
    I will watch but I dont really try to imitate. I try to understand what is going on and end up going about it my own way. I can sit for hours trying to figure things out without losing my patience at all. Eventually I give up and come back to it later. To me the harder something is to figure out the more challenging it is. Im stuck on people right now and MBTI and it is pretty challenging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Yeah, good ol' crabby Lady. lol

    hahaha! You mean there's a black lab that *isn't* completely lazy?? All the ones I've met are so sedate they're practically dead. My sister dated a guy with one and she was a kooky animal. She'd get so excited when Sis came over that she'd fall down in the grass and slowly drag herself on her belly around and around the yard in circles. Comical and strange.

    There's a scene in "Funny Farm" where Chevy Chase's notoriously shiftless dog (a golden lab, I believe) is lying at his feet before a roaring fire and Dog's tail is on fire and he's so lazy he doesn't notice or even care, so Chevy Chase has to stamp the end of his tail out with his shoe. lol
    Most retrievers I've met have been pretty low energy dogs as well, when nothing interesting is going on that is.

    Prior to my arrival, he was just being lazy on his front porch. I guess I looked like just enough of a challenge, but not too much, for him to have some good fun. And he was right, we were pretty evenly matched. Until I stood up and sprinted away that is.

    I bet I left him thinking he needed to get him some wheels of his own.



    Have you ever had a problematic shower head that was all clogged up with minerals and goo, but it still sorta works, and then you finally clean it out and it's like showering in Niagara Falls? lol That's why I freaked out. The "norm" for me is to experience pain or tension *somewhere* in my body, and when it all went away for that small space of time and my circulation came back up, the sensation was so alien to me that I flipped out. I felt warm all over for once. This probably how everyone else feels most of the time.
    So do you put the minerals and goo back in your shower head?


    See! Humans are animals too.
    Most of the time I feel more animal than I do human.

    I wish I could be like Mowgli with a bear and a panther as friends.


    Sounds like you had a great time! And you didn't actually die bicycling like a crazy person just to get there.
    That's the thing about doing things like a crazy person - no matter how hard I go, I'll never be able to actually kill myself, only get to the level just below that where I feel like I might at any second. Eventually there comes a point when conscious willpower can no longer manually override the machine, and automatic shutdown occurs to prevent damage to the machine.

    Impact with hard objects could certainly kill me though, so I just have to watch out for that tree!


    YAR! I keeps it in me wooden leg!

    ahahaha, good question. It seems to go into storage (with it's little labels and such) and gets preyed upon or trotted out for some project dictated by Ni. My Ni makes a network of connections and forms an image of it. I saw this scientist in Scotland who'd managed to create a software program that maps deep space pockets of dark matter and creates a 3D model of them. That's pretty much the way my Ni works - it's the blind points of data, millions and millions of them, interconnecting, waiting to be mapped and shown to itself in 3D.
    Into storage for future use entertaining people with stories no doubt! Would you describe your capacity for storing all this random information as infinite? The collective knowledge in your mind just keeps growing, never disposing of anything?

    So that's how you can draw pictures with words, because you actually see them in your head. My Ni connects 3d points and draws pictures as well, but I can't articulate those images like you can. I've always wished there was some sort of machine I could hook up to my brain that would output the images I see in my head, since I have such difficulty communicating those ideas, that understanding, to other people.

    And it's actually kind of coincidental you describe your Ni like that. Just recently I was hanging out with my ENTP and INTP friends. I like listening to their conversation because I try to visualize how their mind is operating because I can compare it to mine in real time. I ask them how they can jump from this idea, to something way over there, skipping all these details in between. They described their thinking as big picture ideas operating like a flow chart, so the following big picture only has to be in some way related to the previous big picture in order for there to be a logical connection.

    I was like, but you miss so many interesting, useful details in between, and they were like, well we can skip details because we're smart like that.

    Then I started thinking about my own intuition, and how it makes connections. It appeared to me in my mind just like you described, a mapping of related data points, each data point being only a single detail of a larger collective of data points. It appears to me in very detailed 3d images, not a 2d flow chart of general ideas, and I navigate through these 3d images, in 3-dimensional movement, to the individual data points.

    I think my disadvantage of intuiting to such fine points, is that I have more points to move through and it takes me longer to get somewhere else, as opposed to intuiting primarily in bigger overall pictures and being able to navigate quicker.

    But the advantage being that there are so many more interesting data points to check out!






    So you take people - even the same familiar people - moment by moment?
    I have to as people are constantly changing. My friend might not be in the same mood as he was yesterday, or even an hour or moment before this one. If I am to interpret how they are right now, there's only so much use I can get from considering how they were last week or a year ago. I am concerned about their needs and thoughts right at this moment, because that has the biggest affect on our interaction right at this moment.

    The essense of who someone is to me doesn't change much, only when they evolve and mature, making major changes in their thinking or emotions. And even then, they aren't a different person to me, I just have a new, deeper understanding of who they were all along. Just like how they appear to themselves - at the very core, they did not change, only their understanding of themselves and life changed and they are now thinking/feeling from a different perspective.

    It's important for me to see people as ever-changing, because that's how I am myself. If I want them to accept me as I am in this moment, and judge based on who I was a year ago, I must do the same for them.

    Perhaps for you it is the opposite way? Do you remember so many details about people, you are more able to address their needs via Fe because you have a more long-term memory of what they like and what they need.

    I can sort of see this in real time with my seemingly Fe-dom friend, although I can't type him all the way (come to think of it, I think he might actually be ESFJ). He knows what people are like, especially his close friends and family. He collects information about everyone, and has a collection of information that goes back as far as he's known that person, and does everything he can to cater to their needs. I often wonder if he ever has needs or feelings of his own, as I never see them because he extraverts so much of his energy taking care of others.

    Beats the heck outta me.
    *Tries to beat the heck outta you*

    Come on, you can bite harder than that! You didn't even leave teeth marks!

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Most retrievers I've met have been pretty low energy dogs as well, when nothing interesting is going on that is.

    Prior to my arrival, he was just being lazy on his front porch. I guess I looked like just enough of a challenge, but not too much, for him to have some good fun. And he was right, we were pretty evenly matched. Until I stood up and sprinted away that is.

    I bet I left him thinking he needed to get him some wheels of his own.
    Labradors are frustrated techies. As soon as someone develops a paw-held device, I believe that they may never shut up.


    So do you put the minerals and goo back in your shower head?
    Those are mighty fine grade-A mineralgoos! Of course I kept them! You rotten kids know nothing about conservation! Now get off my lawn!


    Most of the time I feel more animal than I do human.

    I wish I could be like Mowgli with a bear and a panther as friends.
    hahaha! Would you wear the little loincloth thingie as well?

    Side note of no real importance: Here in NC, we have all manner of strange animals, and apparently we have a black panther roaming around the woods of a small town just over the county line from us for about 10 years. He's not a native type panther but he seems to be eating and living rather well. Maybe eating deer or something. We have plenty of deer - back on my father's property, we used to go riding down to the muddy fast Haw River and we'd scare up deer all the time. At one point, a small group of them sprang out of the corn and dashed for the woods across the access road, and one of them was black. We call them swamp deer for some reason.


    That's the thing about doing things like a crazy person - no matter how hard I go, I'll never be able to actually kill myself, only get to the level just below that where I feel like I might at any second. Eventually there comes a point when conscious willpower can no longer manually override the machine, and automatic shutdown occurs to prevent damage to the machine.
    We're you like this as a child?

    Into storage for future use entertaining people with stories no doubt! Would you describe your capacity for storing all this random information as infinite? The collective knowledge in your mind just keeps growing, never disposing of anything?
    It sometimes feels like a barrel with no bottom - I just keep tossing in thoughts and ideas and it never quite fills up. Granted, I make stacks of journals as well so nothing gets by me. My twin isn't so keen on journaling, but she has some great stories about her and her feral hillbilly welding foreman that just about kills everyone laughing every time they're told. He's so funny and apparently has 9 lives. I keep encouraging her to write it all down.

    So that's how you can draw pictures with words, because you actually see them in your head. My Ni connects 3d points and draws pictures as well, but I can't articulate those images like you can. I've always wished there was some sort of machine I could hook up to my brain that would output the images I see in my head, since I have such difficulty communicating those ideas, that understanding, to other people.
    What do you attribute this difficulty to? I've heard other ISTPs say that very same thing which puzzles me. I know an ISTP who in the linguistics dept. of a college up north. He's really terse (read: brief) when he makes comments (brevity is the essence of wit?) but you can occasionally get him going if you hit the right buttons. He's the king of the one-liner, and I suppose he developed that over time - a way of condensing all his thoughts into succinct statements. I didn't know there was a generalized fear/apprehension/reluctance to speak one's mind, or should I say, verbalize internal dialogs.

    And it's actually kind of coincidental you describe your Ni like that. Just recently I was hanging out with my ENTP and INTP friends. I like listening to their conversation because I try to visualize how their mind is operating because I can compare it to mine in real time. I ask them how they can jump from this idea, to something way over there, skipping all these details in between. They described their thinking as big picture ideas operating like a flow chart, so the following big picture only has to be in some way related to the previous big picture in order for there to be a logical connection.

    I was like, but you miss so many interesting, useful details in between, and they were like, well we can skip details because we're smart like that.
    MY NTP friends say that too. I suspect a conspiracy.

    Then I started thinking about my own intuition, and how it makes connections. It appeared to me in my mind just like you described, a mapping of related data points, each data point being only a single detail of a larger collective of data points. It appears to me in very detailed 3d images, not a 2d flow chart of general ideas, and I navigate through these 3d images, in 3-dimensional movement, to the individual data points.
    Ta da!! A picture of Ni (or dark matter). Observe!



    Looks kinda like a brain, doesn't it!

    I think my disadvantage of intuiting to such fine points, is that I have more points to move through and it takes me longer to get somewhere else, as opposed to intuiting primarily in bigger overall pictures and being able to navigate quicker.

    But the advantage being that there are so many more interesting data points to check out!
    I envy the ability of Ne to "move along" in a linear fashion. It very much is like a flow chart, whereas Ni is spiderwebbing everything. My INFJ father and I will get on some very strange tears.

    I have to as people are constantly changing. My friend might not be in the same mood as he was yesterday, or even an hour or moment before this one. If I am to interpret how they are right now, there's only so much use I can get from considering how they were last week or a year ago. I am concerned about their needs and thoughts right at this moment, because that has the biggest affect on our interaction right at this moment.

    The essense of who someone is to me doesn't change much, only when they evolve and mature, making major changes in their thinking or emotions. And even then, they aren't a different person to me, I just have a new, deeper understanding of who they were all along. Just like how they appear to themselves - at the very core, they did not change, only their understanding of themselves and life changed and they are now thinking/feeling from a different perspective.

    It's important for me to see people as ever-changing, because that's how I am myself. If I want them to accept me as I am in this moment, and judge based on who I was a year ago, I must do the same for them.

    Perhaps for you it is the opposite way? Do you remember so many details about people, you are more able to address their needs via Fe because you have a more long-term memory of what they like and what they need.
    You know, that's a very funny question. I *never* saw that conflict in me, but now that you mention it, it's been right in front of my face the whole time. I depend on and NEED change, some forward motion and evolution. The people I'm closest to are evolutionary types, and I myself am constantly adding things or removing them, like a hermit crab, over time, gluing sparkly rocks and bits of coral to its fabulous shell. People who don't want to evolve make me feel like I'm choking.

    On the other hand, my conservational nature is perpetually trying to freeze and maintain things.

    It's a miracle I'm still sane.

    I can sort of see this in real time with my seemingly Fe-dom friend, although I can't type him all the way (come to think of it, I think he might actually be ESFJ). He knows what people are like, especially his close friends and family. He collects information about everyone, and has a collection of information that goes back as far as he's known that person, and does everything he can to cater to their needs. I often wonder if he ever has needs or feelings of his own, as I never see them because he extraverts so much of his energy taking care of others.
    Interesting!


    *Tries to beat the heck outta you*

    Come on, you can bite harder than that! You didn't even leave teeth marks!
    I'm a piranha. I might just eat off one of your feet, only I'm a vegan! So there! You won't feel my mighty pink wrath, foolish mortal!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Labradors are frustrated techies. As soon as someone develops a paw-held device, I believe that they may never shut up.
    There would undoubtedly be an optional Bluetooth earpiece so they could talk paws-free.

    You rotten kids know nothing about conservation! Now get off my lawn!
    Ain't that the truth! Sorry for stepping on your lawn.

    And my what a mouthful of big, sharp teeth you have!

    Sorry, but you still look like a teddy bear to me.


    hahaha! Would you wear the little loincloth thingie as well?
    What would be the point?


    Side note of no real importance: Here in NC, we have all manner of strange animals, and apparently we have a black panther roaming around the woods of a small town just over the county line from us for about 10 years. He's not a native type panther but he seems to be eating and living rather well. Maybe eating deer or something. We have plenty of deer - back on my father's property, we used to go riding down to the muddy fast Haw River and we'd scare up deer all the time. At one point, a small group of them sprang out of the corn and dashed for the woods across the access road, and one of them was black. We call them swamp deer for some reason.
    The Appalachians of southwestern VA, where I was born and will always consider home, is where most of my extended family still resides. I like when relatives tell me stories of their hunting trips, something they've been doing all their lives, and I've heard many different people tell me a story about seeing, hearing, or spotting tracks of a mountain lion. With such a huge deer population, if they truly are out there, I'm sure they are very well fed and quite large. It sure would be scary running into a cat that large, but I think chances of being mauled by a black bear in those mountains are much higher.

    There are lots of deer that live in the woods in the back of my suburban neighborhood. In the evenings I like to take a walk out there to watch them when they come out of the woods and into the open fields to graze. I can usually get pretty close to them, but it never fails that eventually one of them gets spooked, snorts at me, and they all run into the woods to snort at me from the tree line. I've even tried giving them apples and they still run.


    We're you like this as a child?
    I wish I was. I had a major aversion to any sort of discomfort.

    It sometimes feels like a barrel with no bottom - I just keep tossing in thoughts and ideas and it never quite fills up. Granted, I make stacks of journals as well so nothing gets by me. My twin isn't so keen on journaling, but she has some great stories about her and her feral hillbilly welding foreman that just about kills everyone laughing every time they're told. He's so funny and apparently has 9 lives. I keep encouraging her to write it all down.
    Now there's a great idea. I've never been very organized or good at remembering things, and a part of me has always known that making lists or writing things down would solve that problem. I've tried starting logs for various things, but I always fall out of it. I guess it's the routine I dislike, and I can't see or value the long-term benefits, until later down the road when I'm cursing myself wishing I had recorded that information because I need it now. Damn my lack of discipline!

    What do you attribute this difficulty to? I've heard other ISTPs say that very same thing which puzzles me. I know an ISTP who in the linguistics dept. of a college up north. He's really terse (read: brief) when he makes comments (brevity is the essence of wit?) but you can occasionally get him going if you hit the right buttons. He's the king of the one-liner, and I suppose he developed that over time - a way of condensing all his thoughts into succinct statements. I didn't know there was a generalized fear/apprehension/reluctance to speak one's mind, or should I say, verbalize internal dialogs.
    Linguistics department - well that explains that!

    I think I've written about this somewhere else here, but it's not really a fear of speaking my mind. I see in pictures just like you, but I'm severely lacking in the ability to articulate those pictures as well as you do. When I'm writing here, I have plenty of time to think of what I'm trying to say, and I often reread my posts and edit them for clarity. But it's especially bad when I'm speaking to someone in person and trying to think on my feet, or trying to explain a Ni understanding deep in my mind that isn't associated with many words, but I have to translate it into words in order to communicate it. There are a lot of extended thinking pauses, and perhaps that's why I lose people.

    That's why it's always been easier for me to explain my Ni visually. I could spend ten minutes explaining a process to you, but you still probably wouldn't follow me all the way, so I'll show you instead.


    MY NTP friends say that too. I suspect a conspiracy.
    They have fragile egos.

    Ta da!! A picture of Ni (or dark matter). Observe!



    Looks kinda like a brain, doesn't it!
    Oooh pretty!

    I envy the ability of Ne to "move along" in a linear fashion. It very much is like a flow chart, whereas Ni is spiderwebbing everything. My INFJ father and I will get on some very strange tears.
    No kidding. When my Ne friends have already moved onto something completely different, in my mind I'm still pondering something we talked about awhile ago.

    I don't necessarily envy that type of thinking, but I value it in them. For me, it's like what's the point of dipping your toes in the water but not going for a swim? Sure you sorta get a feel with your toes, but I'd rather strip down, dive in, and swim around to experience it fully.

    You know, that's a very funny question. I *never* saw that conflict in me, but now that you mention it, it's been right in front of my face the whole time. I depend on and NEED change, some forward motion and evolution. The people I'm closest to are evolutionary types, and I myself am constantly adding things or removing them, like a hermit crab, over time, gluing sparkly rocks and bits of coral to its fabulous shell. People who don't want to evolve make me feel like I'm choking.

    On the other hand, my conservational nature is perpetually trying to freeze and maintain things.

    It's a miracle I'm still sane.
    My NT friends told me that they thought I was insane. I told them sanity was boring.

    Interesting!
    Now that I think about it, I can also see this same thing in my ENFJ grandmother. She spent most of her life taking care of others, had a lifetime career as a social worker, and still did all she could to take care of others after she retired.

    I have no idea how she could give away so much energy, but I deeply admire her, and people like her, for all the selfless things they do. But sometimes I think they get caught up in all the giving, and ignore or fail to see their own needs, so they could use someone to take care of them sometimes.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    There would undoubtedly be an optional Bluetooth earpiece so they could talk paws-free.
    it'll happen and then we'll all be sorry...


    Ain't that the truth! Sorry for stepping on your lawn.

    And my what a mouthful of big, sharp teeth you have!

    Sorry, but you still look like a teddy bear to me.
    a deadly ferocious teddy bear made of radioactive particles of love! or something...



    What would be the point?
    how about the safety of your nards?



    The Appalachians of southwestern VA, where I was born and will always consider home, is where most of my extended family still resides. I like when relatives tell me stories of their hunting trips, something they've been doing all their lives, and I've heard many different people tell me a story about seeing, hearing, or spotting tracks of a mountain lion. With such a huge deer population, if they truly are out there, I'm sure they are very well fed and quite large. It sure would be scary running into a cat that large, but I think chances of being mauled by a black bear in those mountains are much higher.

    There are lots of deer that live in the woods in the back of my suburban neighborhood. In the evenings I like to take a walk out there to watch them when they come out of the woods and into the open fields to graze. I can usually get pretty close to them, but it never fails that eventually one of them gets spooked, snorts at me, and they all run into the woods to snort at me from the tree line. I've even tried giving them apples and they still run.
    salt blocks will bring them around...

    we have only bobcats where i'm at, and those are roughly the size of a very large house cat...

    you're a mountain boy?


    Now there's a great idea. I've never been very organized or good at remembering things, and a part of me has always known that making lists or writing things down would solve that problem. I've tried starting logs for various things, but I always fall out of it. I guess it's the routine I dislike, and I can't see or value the long-term benefits, until later down the road when I'm cursing myself wishing I had recorded that information because I need it now. Damn my lack of discipline!
    my istp bff had to come to me for pictures of his hot rod b/c he realized after her untimely demise (destroying herself gloriously in a street race against a mustang...) that he had taken no pictures of her himself.


    They have fragile egos.
    they smell bad too...


    No kidding. When my Ne friends have already moved onto something completely different, in my mind I'm still pondering something we talked about awhile ago.
    ni likes to work over things, like a person who chews their food 20 times... ne likes to wolf it down...

    Now that I think about it, I can also see this same thing in my ENFJ grandmother. She spent most of her life taking care of others, had a lifetime career as a social worker, and still did all she could to take care of others after she retired.

    I have no idea how she could give away so much energy, but I deeply admire her, and people like her, for all the selfless things they do. But sometimes I think they get caught up in all the giving, and ignore or fail to see their own needs, so they could use someone to take care of them sometimes.
    letting someone else take care of you is profoundly scary, at least for me, and i still don't know why... lead to some interesting conversations in the enfj threads... apparently we all do this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post


    a deadly ferocious teddy bear made of radioactive particles of love! or something...
    So that's why you glow...



    how about the safety of your nards?
    True. But how is a simple cloth going to protect anything? Wouldn't it make more sense to wear a coconut?



    salt blocks will bring them around...

    we have only bobcats where i'm at, and those are roughly the size of a very large house cat...

    you're a mountain boy?
    A mountain boy at heart. Short weekend vacations in the woods only temporarily satiate that internal longing for home. I need to start working on getting back there.


    my istp bff had to come to me for pictures of his hot rod b/c he realized after her untimely demise (destroying herself gloriously in a street race against a mustang...) that he had taken no pictures of her himself.
    Someone has got to watch our hinds...



    letting someone else take care of you is profoundly scary, at least for me, and i still don't know why... lead to some interesting conversations in the enfj threads... apparently we all do this...
    We've all got to realize we have our strengths and weaknesses. Watching out for others weaknesses, and letting others take care of our own, is what love is all about.

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    I thought love was about shouting and hand-slap fights.
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    wow, this thread totally drifted from the OP lol thanks piranha, i blame it all on you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by luminous beam View Post
    wow, this thread totally drifted from the OP lol thanks piranha, i blame it all on you.
    Blame me, baby! Blame me! Hurts so good! lol WOOOOO!!!








    (sorry) *slinks away*
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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