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  1. #31
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Of course I'm just talking out of my ass. Does it look like my type does anything but?

    Naw, but I don't think it's necessarily so much "what" goes on in there as it is the direction of focus. Focus outward would be Se, focus directly inward would be Ni. Just because nothing's going on externally doesn't mean you're not functioning in Se. Of course you're probably right, they tend to be more internally active than not.

    In the other thread, though, they (Athenian and wolfy) were talking about meditation being a combined Se/Ni phenomenon, so's. I'm not alone on this, at least.

    And, um, well, you sure you're not gonna end up selling platinum albums anytime soon? Cuz y'know, I can help you get a deal, if you need.
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  2. #32
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post

    Usehername gave me an example that I think has some merit, but it was in a PM, so I'm not gonna post it here unless she gives me permission.
    You're welcome to post anything we've exchanged in our PMs, where I have learned first-hand just how much of a stand-up guy The Jeffster really is. We're pretty much BFF now.

    (Also, I should make clear that I acknowledged to Jeffster that we all have our blind spots, so we should remember too that my iteration of the story will include its blind spots as well.)
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  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    where you make assumptions about the possibilities instead of paying attention to what is actually there.

    The other part of it is just that I like people and I find them fun to interact with. So once again, I'm not seeing this as an area where looking for hidden meanings or possibilities is something that's needed in any way.
    Why do you keep assuming that this is what Ni does?

    You're only focusing on ONE aspect of it's process and completely misinterpreting it.

    Introverted Intuition

    If you read this carefully, you'll see that Ni tries to locate hidden assumptions in order to reject them, not to embrace them.

    The goal of Ni is transcend hidden assumptions in your thinking so that you can see the underlying reality more clearly.


    Ath, I really loved your bank robbery story, that was awesome. It didn't make me think Ni is something positive in any way, but it was exciting. I was sweating just reading it.

    Well, heck, maybe that is the positive right there. It can aid in storytelling. If I was a bank teller in that situation, my thoughts would definitely cross those areas of what I needed to do. But that would once again be SP-tactics at work, I wouldn't waste time thinking about what the robber might do, in fact spending time doing that might be exactly what got me killed. Situation like that, I'd be acting on pure instinct or possibly Si-based experience with a similar situation.
    Haha. Yes, Ni is very good at storytelling. Weaving a fairly realistic, imaginary situation and placing you in it.

    For you, it would be a waste of time for you to stop and think this way, yes. But for an Ni type, this process would be instinctive. They wouldn't actually have to think it out in words, this would all just flash in their head instantly, and they'd make a quick choice based on it.

    One thing that Ni and Se have in common, is that it's easier to DO and engage the process, experience it, rather than to explain it. If you try to explain or express it, it loses something. It's just not going to make sense to you until you become aware of it in yourself rather than trying to look at it as something external that has to be explained.

  4. #34
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    s'kind of freakay.
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  5. #35
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Overall, so far, I think people are trying to force actions into a mold of Ni, rather than the other way around. I think the attitude of trying to make everybody fit into a symmetrical function order system is almost like giving a gold star to every student in school whether they get anything right or not. It seems to be trying to force similarities by bending the definitions to fit very different actions, such as those taken by an SP would be from an NF.
    This is interesting, could you elaborate?

    What do you think of my contingency planning example? You can't use just Se or Fi for that, at some point you have to come up with possibilities out of nowhere.

    Regarding gold stars etc. I think you have to look at what the system is trying to achieve, it's original purpose was supposed to be for help in making career choices. Now most of us when making career decisions already have a reasonable idea about what we're good at from school grades, exams etc., but being good at something is mostly irrelevant if you're looking for something fulfilling in the long run. You can be good at something yet absolutely despise doing it. That is why MBTI (kind of) asks not "what functions are you good at?" but "what functions do you enjoy using?" because a career that involves using those functions that you enjoy using is probably going to be the most satisfying.

    I tend to think of the functions as going from being used in a very basic form (seeing the mountains and the breasts is basic sensing, connecting the two together is basic intuition) to being used in a very complex and skillful form. When people say "everyone uses all the functions" they are really saying "everyone uses the functions in a basic form". We all use Ni, but how you interpret and use Ni is going to be very different from the Ni dom's brand own of Ni.

    Now I believe that just because a function is your dominant and most comfortable function doesn't mean you will be skillful in it's use, after all, comfort breeds complacency, to improve in anything you have use deliberate practice, you need to be conciously looking for improvement and setting goals and practicing techniques that are always just beyond your reach to improve.

    Having a preference for your top two functions might give you a head start in their use, but in my opinion there is nothing stopping other types exceeding your abilities in those functions if you're just coasting along comfortably.
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  6. #36
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Hmmmm Se + Ni.... for me anyways, what Se observes feeds directly into Ni. First observe, then internalize, then draw connections.

    Without input, Ni comes up with crack theories that have no bearings to reality. Similarly Ni feeds back to Se... in providing possible explanations for what's observed or experienced. I guess depending on your function preference, you'll use one to feed the other more often.

    There's a red throat flicker sitting in the tree right outside my window. First I only saw something that didn't bob right in the wind (most of the bird is brownish see and blends well with the leaves). Se noticed movement, Ni detected mismatching movement to the movement of wind blown leaves. Further examination by Se observed outlines, Ni/Si linked the shape and pattern to be a small woodpecker or some sort. Assumption on type of bird... the red throat flicker is the most probable... recheck patterns on the bird. Matches. Identity confirmed.
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  7. #37
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    One example: worst case scenario planning, with Ni foreseeing possible developments, you would hope that whoever designed the plane you're flying in had come up with and taken into account as many scenarios as possible. "What would happen if a flock of seagulls flew into the engines? What would happen in a terrorist attack?" These kind of questions and answers to them are very positive and help us avoid disaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    The most positive thing about Ni is foresight. Either short term or long term. This is very very helpful in life.

    And also approximation. Weighing what's right and wrong and the percentages for each choice and going with the most probable one. Ni users are pros in that department. This is the reason I ace all multiple choice tests, sometimes without touching my book. I use Ni for weighing my options and deciding which one is the most probable and it rarely lets me down.
    These are both really good, thanks.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    So, you think Ni is the only thing that can pick up a pattern? From what I have read, I disagree. Breasts as mountains is a Se-based metaphor. It describes the shape of what they look like, not anything mystical or hidden. I guess my feeling continues to be that this theory of everybody basically having the same stuff inside, just shuffled, is kind of a cop-out or an oversimplification of people. I think people were created to be different from each other for good reasons. Some people seem to think that to "develop", we need to become more like someone else. I don't agree with that notion.

    I guess this is why I continue to think David Keirsey is the best of the personality type gurus, because it seems he is the most accepting of the idea that it's okay for people to be fundamentally different - and not just like someone else turned inside out or upside down.
    It was bad of me to stir, using your post as an example of Ni. You're right, I was reading up on it and reread this article.

    How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing

    Extraverted Sensing and extraverted iNtuiting are holistic, analogic perceptual modes. In extraverted Sensing, the individual elements, like the trees in the forest, are seen in rich detail, all at once. Thus concrete patterns are quite likely to be perceived along with the discrete sensory information. This pattern is different from the abstract extraverted iNtuiting perception of the relationships and connections of the trees to the rest of the environment. Both pattern and big picture can be on a continuum from concrete to abstract.
    I agree, Quin and Ace's examples are good.

  9. #39
    Member Sidewinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Overall, so far, I think people are trying to force actions into a mold of Ni, rather than the other way around. I think the attitude of trying to make everybody fit into a symmetrical function order system is almost like giving a gold star to every student in school whether they get anything right or not. It seems to be trying to force similarities by bending the definitions to fit very different actions, such as those taken by an SP would be from an NF.
    You're on to something here. Someone who leads with Ni and then uses Se is going to approach life differently than someone who uses Se to get info and then Ni to extrapolate from there. NJs seem to start with a goal in mind, and once they've decided what they want, they look around them (tertiary Se) to get the lay of the land and see what has to change. I start with the present in mind and see where all the options might lead me and which ones I like or should avoid.

    When Ni follows from Se, it feels like I'm receiving an alert about the current situation, like hearing a traffic report of a tie up on the bridge ahead. Better take an alternate route! But when Ni is unattached to anything it feels spooky and spectral. It feels like a dark premonition that is too vague to do anything about. It's that shiver I get up my back sometimes.

  10. #40
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Foresight, definitely.

    I'm a childbirth support person, and if I didn't walk into the room with a good sense of how the client might react behave in certain birth scenarios, and have a good bag of tricks prepared, the whole point of my being there (comfort, relaxation, reassurance) would be blown all to hell. I rely heavily on my ability to stay one step ahead of the challenges of a hormonal woman in labor, and am there to MEET her with solutions when she reaches a dead end, rather than being surprised and having to regroup in the moment.

    As a parent of really smart munchkins, the ability to stay one step ahead of how things will likely play out is invaluable.
    I think I think more than you think I think.

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