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  1. #41
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me_plus_one View Post
    I have to tell you, I am a true SP. Still, I totally hate physical discomfort. I'd rather be in a safe situation at all times. I don't like taking risks when it comes to my own safety and physical soundness. I always put my seatbelt on in the car, even in the back seat.

    I shudder at the idea of being in pain. Whenever that's the case, I stuff myself with pills. And so on. You get the point.

    Danger and discomfort, from a physical point of view - big NO-NO for me.
    You sound exactly like me, then. Come to think of it, that does remind me of how I use Se. I always wear my seatbelt as well, even for short trips. When I feel nervous, I'm very circumspect and constantly scanning my environment for any sign of danger. I also have an extremely impulsive reaction to things like snakes, like jumping up on a chair or running off to hide.

    In fact, I think SPs are the ones that tend to be more understanding of my going "There was a snake! It was there! I got scared and reacted," while some of the ESJs (usually the very calm, cool ones) shake their heads and claim I should trust the school enough to assume they wouldn't let a dangerous creature into the building, and are disgusted that I "allowed myself to be controlled by the situation."

    Perhaps there's more than one kind of SP... the one that enjoys the thrill of danger, and the kind that fears/avoids danger and wants to remain in relative comfort like I do (but is happy to indulge in stimulating experiences that don't involve danger, pain, or risk). I have a feeling I'd get along better with the second type of SP.

    After reflecting further, I think it might have more to do with enneagram instinctual stacking than type. For instance, an SP with a stronger self-preservation than social or sexual instinct might very well be less bold than other SPs.

    I suppose the main thing that's consistent about SPs, is that they have a strong reaction to their physical situation. They either seek out danger, or they're absolutely disgusted by it. Not as much in-between.

  2. #42
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I suppose the main thing that's consistent about SPs, is that they have a strong reaction to their physical situation. They either seek out danger, or they're absolutely disgusted by it. Not as much in-between.
    Ehhhh...OR it could be, like I said earlier, that there's actually lots of "in-between."

    I do get your point about the "instinctual stacking" though, as I fit into the "sexual" type rather than the "self-preservation" one. In fact, self-preservation is not really that important to me. I think I've already had a pretty good run.
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  3. #43
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    me and my dad were talking because he smashed his thumb and was talking about his fingernail falling off. I was telling him what happens because when i was a kid i would ride my bike crazy and smashed my finger in between the reflector and the bar. I told him that why i never used a reflector after that. his(ISTJ) response was why didnt you just not ride it so crazy. I got this puzzled look on my face because his suggestion did not register as even an option.

    My reason for not wanting a motorcycle is that i dont want to kill myself doing stunts because i WILL do it if I get one.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    At first, this was going to be my response as well.

    But then I got to thinking about it. Is that really meditation? Or is it simply a state of very minimum operation of the mind?

    I'm curious to hear your opinion. What is the difference between active sensing of your environment, but ONLY sensing, no intuiting or thinking past what you sense to be occurring in the present moment, and the "screensaver" state of mind you described in another thread?
    I have to think about the screensaver question but I was thinking specifically about Zen and Zen meditation. That is definitely Se in nature.

    Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish your opinions.

    At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers.

    Zen is not some kind of excitement, but merely concentration on our usual everyday routine. Shunkyu Suzuki

    Empty Your Cup

    Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
    Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
    The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
    "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"


    No Cold and Heat

    A monk asked Tozan, "How can we escape the cold and heat?" Tozan replied, "Why not go where there is no cold and heat?" "Is there such a place?" the monk asked. Tozan commented, "When cold, be thoroughly cold; when hot, be hot through and through.

  5. #45
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I have to think about the screensaver question but I was thinking specifically about Zen and Zen meditation. That is definitely Se in nature.

    Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish your opinions.

    At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers.

    Zen is not some kind of excitement, but merely concentration on our usual everyday routine. Shunkyu Suzuki

    Empty Your Cup

    Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
    Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
    The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
    "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"


    No Cold and Heat

    A monk asked Tozan, "How can we escape the cold and heat?" Tozan replied, "Why not go where there is no cold and heat?" "Is there such a place?" the monk asked. Tozan commented, "When cold, be thoroughly cold; when hot, be hot through and through.
    All of those examples sound like Ni commentary on Se. Se is about embracing that initial impression and reacting to it ("the cup is overflowing"), Ni (Zen) is about questioning and transcending the initial impression.

    Zen is basically something that's very Ni/Se, I suppose. It involves the kind of information and impulses you get from Se, but uses it in a completely different way.

    This is a good sign, though, wolfy. It looks as if you're getting to a point where you can't tell where Se ends, and Ni begins. That means you're really starting to experience how Ni complements your way of seeing and doing things. I reached a similar point with Fe and Ti when I started developing Ti, so I know this can happen.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Zen is basically something that's very Ni/Se.
    I'd have to agree with you. I was just thinking the same thing.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I have to think about the screensaver question but I was thinking specifically about Zen and Zen meditation. That is definitely Se in nature.

    Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish your opinions.

    At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers.

    Zen is not some kind of excitement, but merely concentration on our usual everyday routine. Shunkyu Suzuki

    Empty Your Cup

    Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
    Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.
    The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"
    "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"


    No Cold and Heat

    A monk asked Tozan, "How can we escape the cold and heat?" Tozan replied, "Why not go where there is no cold and heat?" "Is there such a place?" the monk asked. Tozan commented, "When cold, be thoroughly cold; when hot, be hot through and through.
    I think I understand what you mean.

    If Zen meditation is nothing more than pure awareness of your being in the present moment, no thinking or reflecting on past or future, and Se is concentration of your being and interacting in and with the physical world, then I would have to agree.


    I had to read those quotes a few times to understand, but they are excellent.

    I take it to mean that rather than interacting with the present situation based on what you already know, or think you know, treat every moment as the present, rather than past or future. By being conscious in the present, you can respond accordingly to what the present requires of you.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    me and my dad were talking because he smashed his thumb and was talking about his fingernail falling off. I was telling him what happens because when i was a kid i would ride my bike crazy and smashed my finger in between the reflector and the bar. I told him that why i never used a reflector after that. his(ISTJ) response was why didnt you just not ride it so crazy. I got this puzzled look on my face because his suggestion did not register as even an option.

    My reason for not wanting a motorcycle is that i dont want to kill myself doing stunts because i WILL do it if I get one.
    My friends keep telling me I need to buy a motorcycle so I can ride with them.

    My response is that I've already hurt myself badly enough pushing the limits of my bicycle on the road, and I don't want to find out what happens when I crash at even higher speed.

    I may get a motorcycle someday but it will likely be a cruiser type bike to start.

  9. #49
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Danger and discomfort... do I like it?
    Not really but...
    One day I was watching a documentary about several people who were climbing Mount Everest. The camera crew followed the climbers as they went up up up to thin oxygen and terrifying heights.
    Ooooh, I thought. I would never do that! I am far too afraid of heights.
    I watched as the climbers huddled from the cold in base camp. I watched as icicles formed on their noses. Oh! Their fingers! They could lose their fingers!
    I love my fingers. I would never do that!
    I saw the garbage that other climbers had left behind. Parts of Mount Everest looked like a junk heap. I didn't like that. I also saw the places where unlucky climbers had died. That was very sad to know that people had lost their lives in search of something. I wondered what that something was that would cause people to risk so much.
    Finally, I saw it, at the end of the documentary... the goal of all of that struggle, pain, and risk...
    The view from the summit of Mount Everest.
    It was spectacular. I could hardly believe my eyes. And I was watching it on television.
    I thought, that's it. It's so beautiful. Sigh and double sigh!!! If only I had the courage to climb like that. Yes, I would do it to experience that much beauty.
    I'm not strong enough to climb such a big mountain, so I climb smaller ones and am happy with what I can do.
    But if I could, I would... and the risk and discomfort would be well worth it.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Danger and discomfort... do I like it?
    Not really but...
    One day I was watching a documentary about several people who were climbing Mount Everest. The camera crew followed the climbers as they went up up up to thin oxygen and terrifying heights.
    Ooooh, I thought. I would never do that! I am far too afraid of heights.
    I watched as the climbers huddled from the cold in base camp. I watched as icicles formed on their noses. Oh! Their fingers! They could lose their fingers!
    I love my fingers. I would never do that!
    I saw the garbage that other climbers had left behind. Parts of Mount Everest looked like a junk heap. I didn't like that. I also saw the places where unlucky climbers had died. That was very sad to know that people had lost their lives in search of something. I wondered what that something was that would cause people to risk so much.
    Finally, I saw it, at the end of the documentary... the goal of all of that struggle, pain, and risk...
    The view from the summit of Mount Everest.
    It was spectacular. I could hardly believe my eyes. And I was watching it on television.
    I thought, that's it. It's so beautiful. Sigh and double sigh!!! If only I had the courage to climb like that. Yes, I would do it to experience that much beauty.
    I'm not strong enough to climb such a big mountain, so I climb smaller ones and am happy with what I can do.
    But if I could, I would... and the risk and discomfort would be well worth it.
    I like this

    If I were to climb Everest, my main goal would not be the adventure of getting to the top. It would not be to make it part of my identity to say that I had climbed Everest. It would not be to test my physical and mental endurance and strength.

    It would be for the view, the sensation, I would take in from the highest point on this planet.

    Seeing a picture of a place like this is one thing, but actually being there and sensing it for myself...wow.

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