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  1. #1
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Exclamation ESFP 911: Grip Experience

    An ENTJ female has been in a relationship with an ESFP guy for over a year. She says everything was going great until recently. He won't tell her what the matter is, and keeps telling her - in spite of his describing her as smart, loving, loyal and giving - that she's trying to "manipulate" him. He has a bad past history with women trying to do this to him, and ENTJ feels this is being projected onto her. She says he won't listen to her, tell her what the matter is, is making wild connections between things that aren't related, and is pulling back from her for reasons she can't fathom.

    ESFPs, she wanted your opinions as to how to handle this because she loves him and wants this to stop - her fault or not, she doesn't care. She feels like she can't reach the rational part of him and is very worried.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  2. #2
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    REF:
    "She says everything was going great until recently. He won't tell her what the matter is, and keeps telling her - in spite of his describing her as smart, loving, loyal and giving - that she's trying to "manipulate" him."
    OK, he sounds a little mentally unstable to me. If he had a prior girlfriend that was a control freak, that's fine, but your girlfriend doesn't seem like she is one, and this guy should be smart enough to know the difference. He might be taking on the victim's role in order to try and manipulate her <see below>.

    Another thing to consider is adult mode of attachment, this guy might be a bit avoidant, wanting a close relationship, but fearing rejection and pushing away when getting close to someone.

    REF:
    "He has a bad past history with women trying to do this to him"

    Is this verified or his own proclamation? Is all this in his head? Why would serial numbers of women try to control him? He might be a control freak himself. Your girlfriend might want to look for another beau...

    CONTROL FREAK CHECKLIST:
    The Characteristics of a Control Freak Checklist
    FROM: Dealing with a Critic, Control Freak or Verbal Bully? Tongue Fu! |you might want to compare his/her behavior to the following checklist to see how s/he stacks up.

    1. Dissonance. Psychologists agree that one of the primary indicators of a troubled person is incongruent behavior. As Dave Barry pointed out, someone who is nice to you and nasty to "the help" is not who he or she seems. Someone who makes racist remarks and then tries to laugh them off is revealing his or her true character (or lack of). Someone who says s/he loves children but seems remote or rigid when around them is displaying dissonance -- defined as "inconsistency between one’s beliefs and one’s actions." What this means is that you cannot take this person at his or her word. Everything they say will be suspect because you won't know when they're telling the truth and when they're not.

    2. Possessiveness. Someone who comes on strong and wants (or has!) to be with you constantly is showing a dangerous need to have you all to him or herself. Possessiveness is defined as "a desire to own or dominate." Bullies often don't have many (or any) friends of their own which means they grow to resent your other relationships. Does this person pout or try to make you feel guilty for abandoning him or her when you spend time with others? Does this person want to know all about your previous partners/bosses, and somehow resent the fact that you've been with or worked for someone other than him or her? Bullies are so insecure they see everyone you care for as competition and as a threat to their dominance. This reluctance to share you with others will only get worse and become more perverse.

    3. Secrecy. People who don't want to discuss their background and don't want you to meet their family or colleagues may have something to hide. People who refuse to reveal anything about their past are often concealing emotional baggage. What you don't know can hurt you. Someone who doles out self-revelations in small quantities may seem mysterious and alluring in the beginning. In the long run, being with a private person who withholds most of himself or herself gets lonesome.

    4. Bitterness. Does this person have a lot of animosity for his or her parents, former spouse, or previous managers? Please understand you will be reliving and working out the unresolved traumas of this individual's childhood and prior work relationships. You've heard the Zen saying, "Wherever you go, there you are?" This person hasn't yet figured out that his or her source of bitterness is internal, not external. If this individual is lugging around deep-seated resentments, it is only a matter of time before s/he starts accusing you of the same "crimes" former significant others supposedly perpetrated upon him or her.

    5. Twists words. Does this person take what you say and turn it into something you didn't mean? Do you sometimes feel on the defensive and don't even know why? Does this person obfuscate - make confusing statements and then accuse you of misunderstanding? Bullies often make commitments and then claim they never made them in the first place. This is a crazy-making ploy designed to turn you inside-out so you don't know what's up.

    6. Holds you responsible for their unhappiness. Does this person blame you for his or her bad moods? If they're sad, it's because you didn't ask about their day? If they're depressed, it's because you don't take them anywhere anymore? If they're angry, it's because you said something that provoked them? There will be no pleasing this kind of person. They essentially haven't grown up, and never will as long as they continue holding everyone else but themselves accountable for how they feel.

    7. Perfectionist. Does this person nit-pick? Does he or she have such high standards no one ever measures up? Does this individual have to do things himself because anyone else would just "mess it up"? If you're still in the honeymoon or courting phase, you may be temporarily exempt from this person's unceasing criticism. In time though, their insistence on things being done a certain way (their way) will transfer to you and then you'll never be able to do anything right. Jimmy Hoffa once said, "I may have my faults, but being wrong isn't one of them." Tyrants won't admit to any faults, least of all being wrong.

    8. Pinpoints your weakness and uses them against you. Tyrants have a talent for ferreting out your emotional Achilles Heel and hobbling you with it. If you don't want to be considered selfish, they'll call you selfish. If you don't want to be perceived as controlling, they'll accuse you of being controlling. If you're unsure of your parenting skills, they'll attack your parenting skills. This is a classical Machiavellian method of exploiting your weakness so you're impotent (lacking power or strength) and they're omnipotent (having unlimited influence or authority.) Their goal is to make you doubt yourself so you're vulnerable to their attempts to own you.

    9. Plays martyr. Does he or she try to lay on the guilt trip by saying things like, "Go ahead and go skiing with your friends. I don't mind. I mean, who wants to spend time with an old fogie like me anyway? I'm sure I'll find something to do." Does this person play the long-suffering individual who's unappreciated? Is it a common theme that s/he is the only one holding the office together and everyone else is frivolous, hedonistic, incompetent, or selfish?

    10. Hates to have authority questioned. Does this person take umbrage if you dare dispute his or her facts or opinions? Does s/he come across as a "know-it-all" who has to have all the answers? Bullies can't stand to be challenged because they're afraid their "power-house of cards" could come falling down. Their "my way or the highway" communication style is based on their need to be in control and beyond reproach.

    If you disagree with this person, does he or she escalate their intensity in an effort to force you to concede? If so, it means that every conversation is going to turn into a verbal battleground. It means this person will start disparaging your intelligence, expertise, and experience so you no longer know what you know and won't have the intellectual confidence to challenge them.

    11: Lies, Lies, Lies: Mark Twain once commented that "Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Does that description fit the person you're dealing with? Does he or she self-aggrandize and exaggerate his or her achievements? In order to win respect, bullies often claim to have been to places they've never been, boast of knowing people they've never met, and excel at things they've never tried.

    In the mid 1970's, I had the privilege of working with Grand-Slam tennis champion Rod Laver at his Hilton Head Island resort. A couple times a year we sponsored national tennis camps. Every once in awhile, someone would blow in and we would sense that we were able to deal with a type of individual the Aussies playfully refer to as "all flap and no throttle." These "blowhards" always talked a bigger game than they delivered.

    Does the person you're dealing with display "blowhard" tendencies? Does he or she wax eloquently (or not so eloquently) about past accomplishments? Did this individual somehow manage in the first few minutes of meeting you to let you know how much money he made, what degrees she had, or what awards he's won? Was she so intent on impressing you with her curriculum vitae that she failed to ask about yours? Watch out. Red alert. Bully on the loose.

    Is This Person Hyper-Critical?
    "A critic is someone who's at his best when you're at your worst." -Tony Pelleto

    Verbal bullies do their best to make you feel worse. Are you thinking, "Well, my partner, co-worker, in-law or boss does some of these things some of the time, but so do I! After all, no one is perfect."

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    An ENTJ female has been in a relationship with an ESFP guy for over a year. She says everything was going great until recently. He won't tell her what the matter is, and keeps telling her - in spite of his describing her as smart, loving, loyal and giving - that she's trying to "manipulate" him. He has a bad past history with women trying to do this to him, and ENTJ feels this is being projected onto her. She says he won't listen to her, tell her what the matter is, is making wild connections between things that aren't related, and is pulling back from her for reasons she can't fathom.

    Sounds like ESFP breakdown to me... N gone wild. ESFPs under stress are wonderfully good at connecting things that have no real connection, and then getting very very emotionally worked up by it.

    i agree with Halla -- the possibility needs to be considered that the ESFP is partly (or more) at fault and might be misreading past relationships, unless she has prior knowledge of them through another source besides him.

    Also, ESFP hates to hurt people's feelings (unless they're in lash-out mode); my one ESFP boss lied to my face repeated about my job, then fired me unexpected the day after xmas because he didn't want to "ruin my holidays" and also couldn't handle dealing with stressful situations. So just because he can say all that nice stuff doesn't mean inside he's not freaking out, and might be avoiding her because he's scared of flipping out and lashing at her.

    My ESFP son also has issues with rewriting events to suit his own feelings rather than remembering exactly and accurately what happened; it's scary to watch, we've had all other four people in the family without prior collaboration agreeing on the details of the events in question, and he's insisting something happened a different way... a way that either exonerates him or helps him somehow... and he BELIEVES it.

    Anyway, lots of cross-checking is needed here. And it might not be salvageable, it all depends on the guy and how open he is to listen and reevaluate.

    She feels like she can't reach the rational part of him and is very worried.
    She'd do better trying to appeal to his compassion for other people and his positive love for them... going through logic is NOT the way to deal with an ESFP -- when their feelings are all over the place, they just don't seem to care about logic anymore. She needs to work through S or F style channels.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    You guys are gems. Thank you!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #5
    Dali
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    ^ I read that as "you guys are germs" and was surprised for a minute or two.

    Ah, the joys of dyslexia.

  6. #6

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    ESFPs are prone to paranoia when they can't make sense of things with their tools of choice. When my ex-fiance was at his lowest of lows he had to be hospitalized. He was positively manic and convinced everyone was out to get him. When he and his ESTP father would start yammering about 9/11 conspiracies I had to hold my tongue and walk the hell away.

    ESFP gone horribly awry.

    My influence over his paranoia was minimal. It mostly involved distraction (i.e. Let's go to the park. Let's take a trip. Let's have a barbecue with your parents. Let's do something pleasant <<Read: but not excitable>>) as once he had reached that point I could not reason with him.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #7
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Dear me. This one is ADD as heck and getting rather paranoid.

    TY, Iwakar. VERY helpful.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #8
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Some men are petrified of divorce and/or being cheated on. I think most of them can be rehabilitated with the right behavior but it would take a lot of time, focus, and effort. Some of them are worth rehabilitating and some aren't. A woman would have to first evaluate whether or not he is replaceable or worth that effort. Just being honest.

  9. #9
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Wow... sounds eerily familiar... this esfp sounds like someone I know... someone I know fairly well actually

    This certain esfp that I know feels manipulated in most of her relationships...

  10. #10
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    ^ I read that as "you guys are germs" and was surprised for a minute or two.

    Ah, the joys of dyslexia.
    I'm right there with ya, man. That topic titled "Sky Regnant" I read as "Sky Pregnant" every time.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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