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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Do you like taking group classes?
    Not especially. I'm quite willing to learn this way, but it's my least favorite.

    Or do you prefer one-on-one instruction?
    Yes, definitely. If it's the kind of thing you do with people.

    Would you rather buy a how-to book?
    If it's a subject I'm really excited about, maybe. Otherwise, probably not.
    Or just mess around with something until you figure it out?
    Only if it's not important and I can afford to screw it up. But in such cases, yes. I learned about computers, video gaming systems, DVD players, VCRs, and telecom devices this way (along with random research along the way), by experimenting on the ones I owned. Mostly when I was really bored, had a lot of energy, no good ideas, and nothing new to read.


    EDIT: Sorry, everyone. I didn't see the SP label. Disregard this post.

    First time this has happened outside the NT Rationale.

  2. #12
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    EDIT: Sorry, everyone. I didn't see the SP label. Disregard this post.
    we can still read your post. oh wait, there are lines through the words!??!
    it is like the words are there, but some ingenious device makes them unreadale!! devious!

    but seriously, we are happy to have your input, athenian.
    we are not SP exlcusive.


    i realy dislike group classes. especially when the students are inequally matched in skill, and you have to wait around for someone.
    one on one instruction is the best for me, but only if it is hands-on. that is why i never buy how-to books, because it is not hands-on.
    i have to see it being done, and practice doing it myself. your explanations mean nothing to me. nothing!
    although i will buy books if it is something i am really excited about, like athenian said. but then i am not buying it to learn how to do it, only to learn about the thing. the history, the applications, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The very best way for me to learn is for me to teach someone else as I learn.
    how does that work, for you? what is that like?
    because that is something i could never relate to. i am only comfortable teaching something if i feel i have an extremely solid understanding of it. and when i am teaching i am totally focused on the student's understanding, so i usually don't think about how the subject applies to me. unless i am giving a personal example, and then like i said, it has to be something i already feel knowledgable about.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The very best way for me to learn is for me to teach someone else as I learn.
    Wait, you know what, I can relate to that a lot actually. Come to think of it, the subjects I tended to do better at uni were the ones I took some interest in and started tutoring my friends. It's the back and forth and the fact others can come up with pertinent questions that put things into perspective.

  4. #14
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    we can still read your post. oh wait, there are lines through the words!??!
    it is like the words are there, but some ingenious device makes them unreadale!! devious!
    Hehe. If you thought that was devious, you haven't seen me do this. Or this, especially near the end of a post.

    but seriously, we are happy to have your input, athenian.
    we are not SP exlcusive.
    Thanks. Always nice to hear that. Sometimes they ask really good questions in other temperament subforums.
    i realy dislike group classes. especially when the students are inequally matched in skill, and you have to wait around for someone.
    Oh, don't remind me. School was often frustrating because they'd sit and dwell on one portion of the material long after I'd gotten it, and then rush through something I was struggling to understand. This really only hurt my grades in math, though it annoyed me in many other classes.
    one on one instruction is the best for me, but only if it is hands-on. that is why i never buy how-to books, because it is not hands-on.
    i have to see it being done, and practice doing it myself. your explanations mean nothing to me. nothing!
    although i will buy books if it is something i am really excited about, like athenian said. but then i am not buying it to learn how to do it, only to learn about the thing. the history, the applications, etc.
    I suppose I agree. The difference, I think, is that spend more time thinking about how a thing is (which is what I buy books to learn), than how to do it . I actually have very few practical skills simply because I'm not comfortable engaging the processes I'd need to learn them in situations where there are consequences for failure. So I end up only learning practical skills that can be developed in a "sandbox," so to speak.

    Ironically, I actually do have many useless and esoteric practical skills that I've developed in situations where there weren't any consequences for failure. For instance, I know how to make a television function as a low-resolution computer monitor, and how to physically modify a telecom device or circuit to do something it wasn't intended to. An empty mechanical pencil is perfect to pick dirt out of my fingernails if I've got nothing else, and I can use the handle of a spoon or fork as a simpler knife if I don't have a real one available.

    The limitation of mine, though, is that most of them are related to mechanical processes. I have almost no practical skills related to anything else. Also, I only seem to be able to use these hands-on developed skills when no one expects me to. If I'm expected to, it becomes about 20x more difficult.

  5. #15
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So I end up only learning practical skills that can be developed in a "sandbox," so to speak.
    well that is not bad. you definitely have more control in that kind of enviroment. if you are comfortable learning that way, go for it.
    i tend to learn very well from seeing mistakes and having things go wrong, and then being forced to fix them. the drawback to that is sometimes you learn to be more reactionary rather than anticipatory.

    The limitation of mine, though, is that most of them are related to mechanical processes. I have almost no practical skills related to anything else.
    just look at it as a strength rather than a limitation. you are good with mechanical devices.
    i think everyone has their strengths, practical knowlede, theoretical knowledge, etc. mine is physical knowedge, i really know my own strengths and limitations, and know how to apply my physicality. i now how to do things physically.

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    well that is not bad. you definitely have more control in that kind of enviroment. if you are comfortable learning that way, go for it.
    i tend to learn very well from seeing mistakes and having things go wrong, and then being forced to fix them. the drawback to that is sometimes you learn to be more reactionary rather than anticipatory.
    Oh, you definitely learn that way. It's just that I always think "what if I can't fix it? I might fail, ruin everything, and not get another chance." I actually call that "learning the hard way."

  7. #17
    Senior Member iamathousandapples's Avatar
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    I like to fiddle with things until they work or they explode

  8. #18
    Member Sidewinder's Avatar
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    Thanks, everyone. Got some really good replies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Naked.
    Well, in life drawing, we're halfway there. The model's already nude. I'd just have to make a convincing argument I should be drawing naked as well. This would give "I absolutely love learning in groups, where we're all just together, quietly doing our thing. " a whole new meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by FC3S View Post
    So I'm required to use a manual and run a mental simulation of sorts. Which is extremely draining. I'm prone to jumping around in the manual to give myself a break.
    I like to be able to see what's being done and do it myself. Sometimes I just can't understand from the manual description and it's not the way I learn. It's dry and I zone out. It's sometimes good once I have a basic understanding to bring out the "oh, I had no idea there were two settings for that" details.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The very best way for me to learn is for me to teach someone else as I learn.
    Teaching someone makes me realize what I really know stone cold and what I'm just sliding my way through. So I wind up learning too. I have to mentor some new employees at work now and it's been a very helpful process for me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fading Dead Star View Post
    I've been trying to learn electric guitar for two years but I'm nowhere near as good as I should be. I haven't taken any classes, I've just been looking up tabs. I'm easily frustrated and so when I fail I tend to put the guitar down. It just isn't worth the stress.

    I feel sometimes that taking classes could put some structure into the learning and I would learn quicker, but this is expensive, and I have to learn to introduce structure in my own life. At the same time I'm afraid of becoming someone I'm not. ARRRGH!
    I used to think the same way, but I've found I make better progress if I have some type of expert around. Even if it's just a friend to sit with you. It's easier for someone to pick out mistakes in timing or technique you might not be aware of. If you can't find a friend, try setting up a video camera of yourself playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    EDIT: Sorry, everyone. I didn't see the SP label. Disregard this post.

    First time this has happened outside the NT Rationale.
    No worries. It's a subject of interest to SPs, but not just for us. Glad to have some outside viewpoints. You actually sound like a very handy guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    i realy dislike group classes. especially when the students are inequally matched in skill, and you have to wait around for someone.
    one on one instruction is the best for me, but only if it is hands-on. that is why i never buy how-to books, because it is not hands-on.
    i have to see it being done, and practice doing it myself. your explanations mean nothing to me. nothing!
    I also find it's annoying to be in classes where I have to sit around and wait for everyone to catch up. But the reverse is true. If everyone else is ahead of me, it's very unsettling. I tend to be a quick study, but I feel very self-conscious when I know I'm behind. I like to feel competent, and it's a little stressful when I'm not, even if it's understandable. Does anyone else feel that way?

    Good how-to books tend to be ones with detailed instructions and lots of pictures. Lately, there are more instructional DVDs and computer programs and I've heard some of those are very good! Expensive, though.

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Just for comparison sake, I:

    1. Get a general overview of what I'm doing and where I'm going, to get started.
    2. Leap right in and figure things out as I go, by doing simultaneously with researching/referencing as I go forward.

    Sometimes I'll go into research mode, once I know what things I have to learn, and just practice learning those bits more intensively and maybe even branching out to study other things momentarily (as part of getting caught up in info-lust), then go back and start doing again.

    But it's really immersion learning with knowledge-snippet and overview support.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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