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  1. #91
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Anyways, I think ISTPs have some major self control in that aspect. When I -know- people are trying to get some kind of negative reaction from me, I will dig my heels in and absolutely refuse to give them what they want. It's like an immediate instinct to resist.
    That sounds definitely ISTPish. I have a saying that ISTP's swim to upstream sometimes when other fish swim to downstream. (Opinion and behavior at times) I mean they aren't there to support the public opinion if they don't agree. They won't even pretend they agree. They stand behind their opinion and don't care if the rest of the people think something else. I admire that "feature" but am myself not capable of doing it.
    Don't know if that is the correct way to write that in English, but if you understand what I mean by that.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    That sounds definitely ISTPish. I have a saying that ISTP's swim to upstream sometimes when other fish swim to downstream. (Opinion and behavior at times) I mean they aren't there to support the public opinion if they don't agree. They won't even pretend they agree. They stand behind their opinion and don't care if the rest of the people think something else. I admire that "feature" but am myself not capable of doing it.
    Don't know if that is the correct way to write that in English, but if you understand what I mean by that.
    Why not?

    I think your English is fine by the way. I perfectly understand what you mean everytime.

  3. #93
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    That sounds definitely ISTPish. I have a saying that ISTP's swim to upstream sometimes when other fish swim to downstream. (Opinion and behavior at times) I mean they aren't there to support the public opinion if they don't agree. They won't even pretend they agree. They stand behind their opinion and don't care if the rest of the people think something else. I admire that "feature" but am myself not capable of doing it.
    Don't know if that is the correct way to write that in English, but if you understand what I mean by that.
    I can agree with that... but I've become a little more balanced about it, depending on who I'm arguing with. With NFs for example, I know they need to feel like they're being heard. So I'll tell them what I think as diplomatically as I can (when asked.. I don't usually volunteer my opinion until asked, unless I feel very strongly about it), and be careful to pick out points that I do agree with and why... and state again why it differs from my opinion. But no, I do not need people to agree with me and am perfectly fine with someone having another opinion. People are allowed to believe whatever they want, and I'm not going to force my opinion on them. Again... because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. I think this quote from ISTP - Introverted Thinking with Sensing about sums it up:

    The motto, "Don't tread on me," could easily be of ISTP origin. It reflects that type in many ways. It could mean "Don't tread on me because I don't know how I'll react," or "Don't do it because I wouldn't think of doing it to you," or "Don't do it because it is a waste of time and energy."

  4. #94
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Why not?
    [/SIZE]
    First of all I don't like to argue because I see no point in arguing. I have noticed that me saying my opinion does not change anything and thus is pointless. People aren't usually willing to change their opinions or even to agree with anything and I want to agree on something. If me saying my opion doesn't lead to anywhere I wont say it. I just can't unless it's something extremely important and involves one of the most important values to me. And there is only few such values that I fight for.

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    I can agree with that... but I've become a little more balanced about it, depending on who I'm arguing with. With NFs for example, I know they need to feel like they're being heard. So I'll tell them what I think as diplomatically as I can (when asked.. I don't usually volunteer my opinion until asked, unless I feel very strongly about it), and be careful to pick out points that I do agree with and why... and state again why it differs from my opinion. But no, I do not need people to agree with me and am perfectly fine with someone having another opinion. People are allowed to believe whatever they want, and I'm not going to force my opinion on them. Again... because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. I think this quote from ISTP - Introverted Thinking with Sensing about sums it up:
    Sounds good, the balancing thing. I think every personality type needs balancing, not just ISTP's.

    I think the need for agreeing is in me, that is why I see ISTP's as swimming the other way than the rest of the people. I'm definitely the one who swims with the others even if I don't totally agree.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    First of all I don't like to argue because I see no point in arguing. I have noticed that me saying my opinion does not change anything and thus is pointless. People aren't usually willing to change their opinions or even to agree with anything and I want to agree on something. If me saying my opion doesn't lead to anywhere I wont say it. I just can't unless it's something extremely important and involves one of the most important values to me. And there is only few such values that I fight for.



    Sounds good, the balancing thing. I think every personality type needs balancing, not just ISTP's.

    I think the need for agreeing is in me, that is why I see ISTP's as swimming the other way than the rest of the people. I'm definitely the one who swims with the others even if I don't totally agree.
    I don't care to argue with anyone. I will present my opinion if requested, and respectfully listen and attempt to perceive and understand theirs. I like looking at an idea from as many points of view as possible. Opinions are difficult to change, especially when they concern very subjective things like spiritual beliefs. So I enjoy the sharing of opinions and views, but arguing, as in defending your opinion, or trying to change another's opinion, is pointless.

    However, I don't cherish my opinions and create separation between myself and others, because at the core my opinions don't mean a lot to me. If someone has a different opinion, I don't attach that opinion, that thing, to the essence of who they are, which is exactly the same as me.



    Thus, I will swim with all the other fish and play happily acknowledging and appreciating that we are all slightly different while still mostly the same. Unless, of course, I have something better to do and no practical reason obligating me to be part of that group

    What I thought you meant was being part of the group for the sake of being part of a group, even if the group's shared value firmly conflicted with one of your core values.



    An example would be if I were in Nazi Germany and required to war against another group of people for a belief that I could not objectively reason into myself. I would have to find a way out of that situation.


    One of the only things I truly value is life and liberty, freedom and independence, for myself and all others. I think this is the same as the "Don't tread on me" quote Steph posted above.

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