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[SP] Cut off the rope? SP only

Do you cut off the rope? SPs only please

  • Cut off the rope

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Stay on the rope

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Bamboo

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My ISTP bruthas.. i think you guys are getting too caught up in precision of technicalities (this the natural problem-solving approach).

To shorten the question for effectiveness> Would you guy's choose to sacrifice yourselves to save the fellow climber's knowing that chance of your own initial rescue to be slim or would you be the moral villain and let none of your climbing party go due to having lost your chance?.

Excuse me while I actually answer the question as intended


*cough*

That's your opinion.

I'd choose to force everyone to stay if it was unlikely that I would survive on my own. I'm more likely to survive with a group, although we would all be, on average, less likely to survive in the elements.

Or does everyone die if I cut the rope?

If this is a question of "would you kill yourself for the group rather than have the whole group die" let's say sure/this sucks.

I doubt you will find a correlation based on temperament (SP vs NT) anyway.
 

Kingfisher

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Sure it does, but that's not the point. The point is this guy is using it to make a trick question - which means it falls apart.

It wouldn't be too hard to have just asked the original question directly - save your hide or let others suffer in misery with you.

it doesn't seem like a trick question to me, highly hypothetical, but not trick. what makes it a trick?
and i am not sure "save your hide or let others suffer in misery with you" is the question he was trying to ask. to me it seems more like -
would you knowingly sacrifice yourself to save others, or would you save yourself at the possible expense of others?
 

thisGuy

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Sure it does, but that's not the point. The point is this guy is using it to make a trick question - which means it falls apart.

It wouldn't be too hard to have just asked the original question directly - save your hide or let others suffer in misery with you.


it WAS asked directly. two poll options and a reason.
you pick what you want.

let me interpret how i want. only while im at it, im gonna go take your answer one step further and analyze typologically, which should be an intuitive suggestion since this site is called typologycentral

isnt that the whole point behind communication?
 

FC3S

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it doesn't seem like a trick question to me, highly hypothetical, but not trick. what makes it a trick?
and i am not sure "save your hide or let others suffer in misery with you" is the question he was trying to ask. to me it seems more like -
would you knowingly sacrifice yourself to save others, or would you save yourself at the possible expense of others?
I want you to play a round of Dungeons & Dragons or an RPG scenario, and argue with the Dungeon Master a bit. The Dungeon Master has a role and an agenda and it's his job to guide the players if they disagree with him. Yep, to reach that final goal force is used.

The poll also only has two choices. Doesn't this cock an eyebrow? No?

I could go on - but I've already said too much. In short, I caught a good stench of BS when I read the topic title. There's no need to hide behind rhetoric man, just ask outright.
 

thisGuy

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Excuse me while I actually answer the question as intended


*cough*

That's your opinion.

I'd choose to force everyone to stay if it was unlikely that I would survive on my own. I'm more likely to survive with a group, although we would all be, on average, less likely to survive in the elements.

Or does everyone die if I cut the rope?

If this is a question of "would you kill yourself for the group rather than have the whole group die" let's say sure/this sucks.

I doubt you will find a correlation based on temperament (SP vs NT) anyway.


if you cut the rope, you die...everyone else flies off to safety

if you or anyone else stays behind...chances of survival are slim or there wouldn't be a need for rescue in teh first place

ya...thats a co-relation that could (not) be made...but how much detail do you need before you can finally decide...thats another relation that can be made
 

thisGuy

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you're clever like a horse

well the NTs couldn't even get past the freaking question...so i started making whatever i could of the thread

its interesting really, check out the same thread in different sections to see different approach people take
 

rhinosaur

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This is totally speculative and pointless. When it actually comes down to that scenario IRL, where you're freezing your ass off, probably hypothermic and therefore cloudy mind, and your rescue is loud, right over your head, blowing snow everywhere -- when it actually comes down to it, who can accurately predict what they would do? There are so many unknown variables, details, that only the most self-righteous would actually say "Oh, I would certainly cut the rope, out of my moral obligation to the others," or "Oh, I would certainly stay on the rope, out of my moral obligation to myself." When it actually comes down to it, until you're actually there, you don't know.
 

King sns

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well I would swing the rope. and then i'd only have 1 or 2 left ahead of me.
 

Kingfisher

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This is totally speculative and pointless. When it actually comes down to that scenario IRL, where you're freezing your ass off, probably hypothermic and therefore cloudy mind, and your rescue is loud, right over your head, blowing snow everywhere -- when it actually comes down to it, who can accurately predict what they would do? There are so many unknown variables, details, that only the most self-righteous would actually say "Oh, I would certainly cut the rope, out of my moral obligation to the others," or "Oh, I would certainly stay on the rope, out of my moral obligation to myself." When it actually comes down to it, until you're actually there, you don't know.

yes, i agree completely! thank you for being a realist. ;)

answering this kind of question seriously is not only pointless, it's deceptive and self-defeating. if a person answers "i would cut it" and truly believes they would, they are deluding themself by defining their morals based on a meaningless question. the danger is that they will then go on thinking 'i am a morally sound and selfless person' when there is no evidence to back that up. i think that is a big problem with morality, that many people think their moral opinion of themself is as meaningful or more than their actions.
 

Bamboo

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well, duh.

i thought that was a given that this is a show of how people would claim to respond to things, not a show of how they really would respond.

i guess some people take this seriously though so it's good to point it out.
 

thisGuy

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yes, i agree completely! thank you for being a realist. ;)

answering this kind of question seriously is not only pointless, it's deceptive and self-defeating. if a person answers "i would cut it" and truly believes they would, they are deluding themself by defining their morals based on a meaningless question. the danger is that they will then go on thinking 'i am a morally sound and selfless person' when there is no evidence to back that up. i think that is a big problem with morality, that many people think their moral opinion of themself is as meaningful or more than their actions.

what more evidence do yuo need when they are willing to sacrifice themselves for 4 other people?
 

Kingfisher

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bamboo, did you just give me a 'well duh'? not cool, man! ;)

what more evidence do yuo need when they are willing to sacrifice themselves for 4 other people?

it is an easy thing to say, but saying it doesn't gurantee a person would do it.
i will believe it when i see it.
 

kendoiwan

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what more evidence do yuo need when they are willing to sacrifice themselves for 4 other people?

There's a HUGE gulf between what you think you would do and what you may actually end up doing. Intention is not evidence.
 

Bamboo

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excuse the interjection, but (answering above):
if they actually do it.
 

Bamboo

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wisemen should sthu
 
Last edited:

SaltyWench

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My observations:

SJs: Most (but not all) answered the question at face value. This is probably due to a willingness to stick to the rules, even with a hypothetical question. The majority of those who chose to "cut" were not choosing death, though. They thoroughly believed that the rescue group would come back. And if the rescue crew had an SJ leader, this suggests they actually would. It would not occur to them to give up on a life out there. Also, the SJs saw the stupidity in cutting the rope at all. They would just let go.

NFs: Also thought cutting the rope was stupid and asked a lot of questions. One was willing to jump unless pregnant, which is interesting. Talk about thinking it through, who would even think of that? NFs wanted to know who was on the ladder, and displayed a willingness to knock off people they harbored a hatred towards. They also wondered why they would have to sacrifice themselves, why they had to be the hero. Suggestions were made regarding rope order (fittest would be in last place), which would increase chances of survival should the worst happen. None seemed to question the fact that the rescue crew wouldn't come back (correct me if I'm wrong... I'm unwilling to read the entire thread again). Perhaps NFs have seen enough of humanity's dark side to expect such things. "We all have feet made of clay" is supposedly an SP type saying, but maybe that's also true of NFs.

NTs: Immediately picked at holes in the scenario, requiring them to be filled in, only to be defied by a work around of some kind. When their problem-solving was discouraged and they were urged to answer the question at face value, they said the question was pointless because any question that attempts to measure moral fiber is all talk, we all think we would act one way, when we would actually have to be there in that moment to find out what we would do in reality. NTs showed a lot of avoidance regarding knocking others off (in my opinion), though they didn't disregard it as a possibility in the heat of the moment. NFs actually seemed to be more aggressive in that manner, claiming that they would be willing to leave someone else on the mountain if it was someone who deserved life less than themselves. One NT claimed they would make sure all of them stayed so that they could kill them off, take their clothes and use them to insure their survival. I think this was a demonstration of their ability to work through the situation using only cold logic, not to be taken at all seriously.

SPs: The STPs wanted to know what gear they had and chances of survival. Picked at holes in the hypothetical situation. Stated that they wouldn't be there in the first place. One said he'd make the whole group stay, since it's easier to survive within a group (he didn't seem to be considering them as potential sources of nourishment). The SFPs also questioned the situation. One said they'd stay if they knocked another guy down for food to survive until the rescue crew came back. Another said they wouldn't be on the bottom in the first place and they'd basically do whatever it took to survive. All SPs questioned the stupidity of the crew in one form or another for the most part, except Jeffster, who yelled something rather random in the thread and then didn't say anything further. Once the clarifying questions had been answered and the problem-solving was through the thread became boring and irrelevant due to the SPs coming to the exact same conclusion as the NTs regarding questions about morality. This may be due to the fact that only STPs replied afterward.
 
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