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Thread: Optimism

  1. #61
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think that a great number of IxFPs are rather emo

    I run hard to escape the past!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #62
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    I'M NOT EMO AT ALL SHUT UP
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  3. #63
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ok i lasted as an infp for 3 mins. not sure if that fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I think that a great number of IxFPs are rather emo

    I run hard to escape the past!
    really, i just think that everyone grows up differently. i don't think any type is inclined to be a pessimist or optimist per se..

    but back to the SP thing.. maybe an ESP who really, really was high in valuing Se, and just forever enforcing a sense of the present.. they'd be better at it than others, but there's still room for their types to be pessimists too. deprive an esfp of his/her fun and even they'll go crazy and think no one loves them anymore.

  4. #64
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    ok i lasted as an infp for 3 mins. not sure if that fits.
    The more you change your type, the more likely you're an NF.

    really, i just think that everyone grows up differently. i don't think any type is inclined to be a pessimist or optimist per se..
    Did you read what I said in the other thread about tendencies vs. absolutes? If you look for something that is absolutely true about ALL people of a type, then you will have over 6 billion types or a very short list of traits.

    These common tendencies exist whether you acknowledge them or not. Believe me, I am a former member of the "We're all unique people and you can't stereotype me" club, but I got out when I had enough life experience to realize that I was being silly and denying reality.

    The fact is, optimism is a common trait of SPs. It doesn't mean that EVERY SP would describe themselves that way, as evidenced by this thread. But to say no "type is inclined" to optimism or pessimism is just flat out wrong.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  5. #65
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    The more you change your type, the more likely you're an NF.



    Did you read what I said in the other thread about tendencies vs. absolutes? If you look for something that is absolutely true about ALL people of a type, then you will have over 6 billion types or a very short list of traits.

    These common tendencies exist whether you acknowledge them or not. Believe me, I am a former member of the "We're all unique people and you can't stereotype me" club, but I got out when I had enough life experience to realize that I was being silly and denying reality.

    The fact is, optimism is a common trait of SPs. It doesn't mean that EVERY SP would describe themselves that way, as evidenced by this thread. But to say no "type is inclined" to optimism or pessimism is just flat out wrong.
    i'm not trying to be unique or anything. cognitively speaking, i just don't understand how Fi-Se, for example, could be commonly optimistic..or pessimistic. It could swing either way. besides all this, there's even a correlation with many ISFPs being Enneagram 4 types - who aren't exactly the optimists of the spectrum. that should be accounted for.

    I could be NF, you're right... but then, I don't really fall in line with defining traits like INFP "innocence" and "idealism". It'd be the same confusing dillemma all over again..and if there was an NF Jeffster, he'd tell me I might be SP.

  6. #66
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    i'm not trying to be unique or anything. cognitively speaking, i just don't understand how Fi-Se, for example, could be commonly optimistic..or pessimistic. It could swing either way. besides all this, there's even a correlation with many ISFPs being Enneagram 4 types - who aren't exactly the optimists of the spectrum. that should be accounted for.
    See, there's the problem. This topic ain't about "cognitively speaking." Like I said before, trying to match functions to behavior is usually a lost cause. You say you don't understand how "Fi-Se could be commonly optimistic." That's because it couldn't be. "Fi-Se" isn't a person. A person can be optimistic. People are more than function combos.

    I could be NF, you're right... but then, I don't really fall in line with defining traits like INFP "innocence" and "idealism". It'd be the same confusing dillemma all over again..and if there was an NF Jeffster, he'd tell me I might be SP.
    I don't know what you've been reading, but I've never seen "innocence" listed as a defining trait of INFP. Idealist is used by Keirsey as a title for the entire NF temperament, because the combination of common behaviors of NF types strikes him as fitting that title. Especially the tendencies to define things as good and evil, and desiring for "growth" in people towards an ideal.

    It's not about "falling in line." Only the TJ's care about falling in line.

    Oh, and NF Jeffster would have killed himself years ago over all the injustice in the world. SP Jeffster is too cynical to let it get to him most of the time.
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  7. #67

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    I think that I have a positive explanatory style. If it is true that SP are overall more optimistic then I think the answer is there.

  8. #68
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    See, there's the problem. This topic ain't about "cognitively speaking." Like I said before, trying to match functions to behavior is usually a lost cause. You say you don't understand how "Fi-Se could be commonly optimistic." That's because it couldn't be. "Fi-Se" isn't a person. A person can be optimistic. People are more than function combos.
    Are you intentionally being facetious? :confused: What I'm saying is that a PERSON lead by Fi could be very much display the opposite behavior of what you're talking about - Because Fi in and of itself is a highly mutable thing. SECOND, so is Se, because that is based experiencing the world itself..which isn't always a box of chocolates.

    In short, they are just generic functions. While optimism and pessimism depends on the specific, individual, and situational.

    As for me, you know, I'm pessimistic in many ways for specific life experience related reasons. Not ideals. Maybe it's a "Si" thing. Not an "NF" thing.. who knows. I'm not going to get into too many sob stories.. but it's a fact that the world can change people in cynics. The real world, not the world of ideals. For instance, I was sexually molested when I was 6. And as much as I've tried (i.e. tried to be optimistic and future oriented), I can't get a serious discussion from the person who did it, let an apology. And I have a family who wants to shove it under the rug to boot. Let me tell you that that would put a damper on anyone's "optimism".. with family, with ideals of forgiveness, with many things I don't even want to talk about. And that's just one thing, man. And it's the kind of stuff that no SP is immune to. But if you want to say they are, like they're forever trudging forward into life, then so be it. I'll just randomly pick another type for now. Regardless of whatever I really might be. I don't want be a party pooper on this whole "optimism" thing you have goin' on..

  9. #69
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Are you intentionally being facetious? :confused: What I'm saying is that a PERSON lead by Fi could be very much display the opposite behavior of what you're talking about - Because Fi in and of itself is a highly mutable thing. SECOND, so is Se, because that is based experiencing the world itself..which isn't always a box of chocolates.
    No, I'm never that f word you said. I could ask you if you're intentionally being obtuse. I feel sorry for anyone who is lead by "Fi." I don't let hypothetical notions lead me. Well, okay maybe sometimes, but not usually. Point is, I think your focus is wrong. Screw "Fi" and "Se." That stuff can be useful as a supplement to understanding people, but using it as the basis is a lousy idea.

    In short, they are just generic functions. While optimism and pessimism depends on the specific, individual, and situational.
    No, not entirely. Certainly life experience factors into our decision making process, but using myself as an example, I have grown more cynical as I've gained life experience, but MORE optimistic. The natural optimism was there and through a lot of painful experiences has shown me the light at the end of the tunnel much more clearly. Once again, there is temperament and there is character. Character comes through environment and experience. Temperament is inborn.

    As for me, you know, I'm pessimistic in many ways for specific life experience related reasons. Not ideals. Maybe it's a "Si" thing. Not an "NF" thing.. who knows. I'm not going to get into too many sob stories.. but it's a fact that the world can change people in cynics. The real world, not the world of ideals. For instance, I was sexually molested when I was 6. And as much as I've tried (i.e. tried to be optimistic and future oriented), I can't get a serious discussion from the person who did it, let an apology. And I have a family who wants to shove it under the rug to boot. Let me tell you that that would put a damper on anyone's "optimism".. with family, with ideals of forgiveness, with many things I don't even want to talk about. And that's just one thing, man. And it's the kind of stuff that no SP is immune to. But if you want to say they are, like they're forever trudging forward into life, then so be it. I'll just randomly pick another type for now. Regardless of whatever I really might be. I don't want be a party pooper on this whole "optimism" thing you have goin' on..
    I'm sorry you were treated so horribly. No one deserves that, and you're right that no one is "immune" to painful experiences. But as I said, painful experiences do not necessarily lead to pessimism. In my case, the very fact that I have experienced a lot of pain and heartache makes me all the more thankful for the good things in life, and all the more able to trust that the future will bring more good things, even if pain is necessary to get to that point.

    I wouldn't stress on the "type" thing. It's really not as complicated or important as some people make it out to be. It's just labels for common behaviors that have existed forever. No biggie. I don't consider you a party pooper. Anything that bumps my topics is a good thing.
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  10. #70
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    really, i just think that everyone grows up differently. i don't think any type is inclined to be a pessimist or optimist per se..

    but back to the SP thing.. maybe an ESP who really, really was high in valuing Se, and just forever enforcing a sense of the present.. they'd be better at it than others, but there's still room for their types to be pessimists too. deprive an esfp of his/her fun and even they'll go crazy and think no one loves them anymore.
    I know an ESFP who can be the most morbid wet blanket in the world when things go wrong... he'll go into a spiral of dispair for a month or two and bounce back for a bit... it's generally when he concludes that his golden touch has quit working and he's doomed to be broke forever
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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