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  1. #11
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    "?", I wish you would say what you think sometimes, instead of quoting people all the time.
    Why give my opinion since the facts speak for themselves? But if you need to know my opinion, how is this? In my opinon there is already too much opinion being spewed on the forums. Many people cannot or do not know how to discern the difference between facts and their opinion. It's one reason that so much irrelevant bickering occurs because if people would take the time to actually read about type instead of scanning and then blurting their intentions or understanding that many of the comparisons cannot be made because people cannot appreciate the systems being compared are inherently different then we (or at least I) could move on to discussing possible theories). Otherwise it's like having to painfully go over the basic principles and discuss things on a rudimentary level when we speak of dichotomies, J/P usage, T/F being=intellect/emotions, Keirsey=MBTI, Socionics uses different functions, etc.

  2. #12
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Is the stuff on the website "facts"? Or merely opinions that are stated as facts? We have no way of judging that since they don't provide the basis for their judgment. They simply state it as "fact". At least here, we can compare our experiences and attempt to factor in biases.
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  3. #13
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I concur with nightning, I don't come to be inundated with the "facts"- this is no science. I come to discuss with people and how they use some ideas about personality typing in their own lives. I'm just curious about what *you* think about some of this stuff- not what "XXXX-types are Y, Z, and K".

  4. #14
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Is the stuff on the website "facts"? Or merely opinions that are stated as facts? We have no way of judging that since they don't provide the basis for their judgment. They simply state it as "fact". At least here, we can compare our experiences and attempt to factor in biases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    I concur with nightning, I don't come to be inundated with the "facts"- this is no science. I come to discuss with people and how they use some ideas about personality typing in their own lives. I'm just curious about what *you* think about some of this stuff- not what "XXXX-types are Y, Z, and K".
    Facts are relative, unless they can be proven differently. The facts in this case are that people far more knowledgeable about type than I have their information available. If I want to share my personal opinion then I would start a blog. Is Keirsey stating facts about temperament. I don't know, if you have evidence that he is not show it. If you don't then you are only providing another opinion with no concrete evidence for support. Is Jung correct in his definitions of the cognitive functions? How would I know, but he did create them as far as we know unless you can show evidence that they were created prior to Jung. So what I think about it personally is irrelevant.

    However the fact that you make that claim means you do not read my post closely since I think that too many times I provide more of my subjective viewpoint than needed. What I will not do, and I find a waste of time, is maintain an argument that is moot since I have nothing but my personal opinion to substantiate it. Sorry I don't know too many objective people who find it necessary to state their subjective opinion on everything.

  5. #15
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Well for myself, I found quotes from the website insufficient in explaining the phenomenon. Funny to hear a N dominant say this, but the descriptions are too vague. They have little practical use.

    ISTPs who do not have technical or mechanical interests often use their talents to bring order out of unorganized confusion. This ability can find expression in law, economics, marketing, sales, securities, or statistics.”
    What does this mean exactly? Bringing order to confusion is probably what anybody regardless of type would do when faced with massive amount of information. Organize it in some fashion such that you can interpret the data. Unless you want to use the stereotype of Fs running away in face of lots of numbers...

    I guess at the end of the day, I don't believe stuff people feed me unless I can confirm that it's reliable. I need to see the evidence. Personal anecdotes is one sort of raw data. Yes it's biased, but no more so than whatever stuff to be found anywhere else really. Also in this case you can gauge the bias.

    Edit:
    What I wanted to say is there is no objective evaluation in any of the facts stated. Given two sources with biases... I prefer one where I can judge the degree of bias. In other words, I'm looking for raw or analyzed data to do something like a meta analysis on.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I guess at the end of the day, I don't believe stuff people feed me unless I can confirm that it's reliable.
    Agreed, which is why I see this post as your subjective opinion. It has no validity for anyone unless they think similarly. So what's your point? You could poll this forum to determine who agrees and disagrees with you, however in the end it's still your subjective belief since the ISTP description would only pertain to those who consider themselves that type or those who may be considering themseleves that type.

    As for your assertion and inability to understand the concept of ISTPs organizing, how could you if you have a low Se and or Ti? What's the point of this discussion other than you and Colors prefer to voice your opinion instead of facts? If I am not that concerened about my own opinions, do you think I have an interest in yours? Not being harsh but just stating my opinion and the facts.

  7. #17
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    I don't know what the hell's going on above, but as far as the topic is concerned:

    My ISTP friend is always taking things apart and putting them back together. Whenever a situation requires this of her, she gets all excited and focused. Hooray, she says, I have to figure this out! And often as not, she seems to deuce out a long-standing problem, that she will then articulate to everyone else at work; both the nature of the trouble, and how to avoid it.

  8. #18

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    Answering the OP:
    All of the ISTP women that I have known have been amazingly gifted concerning anything technical. It's like it almost came natural to them.
    All people see, but no one sees the same.

  9. #19
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    I don't know what the hell's going on above, but as far as the topic is concerned:
    Ahh… it was Color and Nightning’s attempt to discredit me indirectly, most likely from responding to the sacred cow (Socionics) or because I my discussion with Lemons recently. We veered from the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    My ISTP friend is always taking things apart and putting them back together. Whenever a situation requires this of her, she gets all excited and focused. Hooray, she says, I have to figure this out! And often as not, she seems to deuce out a long-standing problem, that she will then articulate to everyone else at work; both the nature of the trouble, and how to avoid it.
    You are absolutely right that we enjoy taking things apart to resolve a problem. I think where most miss the boat on this, is assuming that the problem has to be tangible. I personally prefer to take apart intangible problems in the name of troubleshooting. It should also be noted from your observation that as Joe Butts says in his description at typelogic.com, ISTPs can seem to lie low and not exert energy like ESPs, until they see a problem worth their while. They then go into a frenzy (or at least the appearance of a frenzy by onlookers) on fixing the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelovesyoumaybe View Post
    Answering the OP:
    All of the ISTP women that I have known have been amazingly gifted concerning anything technical. It's like it almost came natural to them.
    Agreed and I am not sure of your connotation of the word, however technical again does not have to be a tangible and can just as easily be intangible. Technical does not necessarily = technology although it can. The definitions of the word broadens the ability to be technical, thus as I stated in an earlier post, all SPs are technical oriented. It’s the readers understanding of the work that limits its usage.

  10. #20
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    I've an female ISTP pal. She's a confirmed player of rugby, she loves music and have a pretty good voice. Almost 19 years old, she's going to a technical formation in electrotechnics next year. Not especially computer-oriented. Hazve a computer and plays a little with old video games on old game console. She's rather discrete reserved and shy but loves have fun and to make party. She drinks a little.

    I know another who's one of my partners in boxing. She's maybe the strongest girl of the club (with maybe, an ESTP female), and even stronger than many males. She's cocky and funny, sarcastic, confident sociable even if she's not especially talkative and loves to have fun to make party and drinks many. Very computer and video games oriented.

    The third ISTP girl I know, make theatre with me. She's very beautiful feminine and sexy (the two other are rather attractives but very tomboyish). She's reserved and thougtful, but very good too for act,play, interpret, perform, improvise, to be creative and have fun. She've a very good humor and loves have fun, she does'nt drink at all. Not computer oriented. His boyfriend is INTP.

    I'm not sure to know other females ISTP, they're very rares, but generally very interesting persons, for sure. But to answer to the topic, females ISTPs seems rather oriented to technical issues, like males ISTPs, in sum.

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