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  1. #1
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    Default ISTP and subconcious Fi

    Something I have noticed recently with me is that my Fi is completely subconcious. I have no desire to try and control it just understand it, it just drives me. If you can manage to figure out my Fi I will be pwned. Very few people have access to it. I have no control over who I give access to it either, it must be earned subconciously. 2 people can tell me the same thing, but unless I give you access to Fi it will never bother me. There are very few people who I actually care what they think. They can say something very hurtful to me and I could really care less. I have experienced this recently. Almost the exact same words from 2 different people, one I could really careless what they think and the other you wouldnt believe how deep it hurt and I dont know how to supress feelings. I think I just block them from that part of me.

    I have also noticed that I hold very few people close to me and I am extremely picky on finding these people. I really try to figure out who a person is, this lets me judge where I can hold them in my life. I try to figure out the dynamics between me and that person and that person and others. When I do let you in close I will be one of the most loyal person you have ever met because you have proven yourself to be worthy of it. The other thing is that I will not push my opinions of someone onto others and try not to pursuade someone into my way of thinking. Everyone has different dynamics with different people and I do not want to disrupt it. Sometimes I may step in and say something, but its only when it is asked of me and I will try to use just perception and not judgement calls. I am a very good judge of character, but it is on my behalf. Everyone has something different to offer and everyone has something different that they want and need.

  2. #2
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Great observation. I couldn'tve said it better myself.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

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    I've been thinking about this myself recently.

    I think it's a protective mechanism.

    I've realized that Fi has driven me all my life, and mostly affected my relationships with other people. If I was hurting, and I didn't want to experience those feelings, I simply shut off that part of myself. However, that also shut out anyone who had access to it. I had to be alone in order to stop hurting.

    What I've found to be helpful is trying to delve into my subconscious, so that I can understand this function that has such a controlling impact on my interaction with others. I need to be able to experience and understand the root of these feelings, so that I can solve problems and move past them. Burying Fi only ever solved the problem for the immediate moment as it allowed me to operate, yet it never solved anything long-term as it was always still burning hot in this deep pit.

    I don't think that being more aware of Fi is going to make me any more or less protective of it, as in allowing others in easier. It's only going to serve me in understanding why I'm feeling the way I do, as opposed to just feeling a certain way and not understanding it, or perhaps not even being aware of it.


    Wiki Socionics description of ISTP says pretty much the same thing you said, with regards to Ne and Fi working together to perceive someone:

    SLIs knowledge of people comes from direct personal experience rather than detached study and comparison with others, and they are largely oblivious to people until they have interacted with them one-on-one. SLIs find it difficult to give accurate general descriptions of people's personalities that would ring true to other people, but they know what the person "feels like" in interaction.

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    It gets buried, but I dont know how to bury it, the feeling just disappears. Next time it comes on just as strong if not stronger. I tend to think first about the other persons feeling and that ends up making mine disappear into a hole until I am alone. Maybe this is Fe at work with Ti+Ni and putting others feelings before my own. I try to understand why they feel that way which delays my feelings. Then I honestly forget about it and it comes back stronger next time.

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    I guess what really trips me up is when I get so stuck in my head trying to figure the other person out I never get to get into my subconcious to work out my own Fi. I put them so far ahead of me that I never get out of my head and the feelings just keep getting stronger and stronger. The people that I am the most loyal to are the ones that can figure out my Fi so I dont have to worry about it. I can put that person up on a pedestal and never have to worry about how I feel.

  6. #6
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Wiki Socionics description of ISTP says pretty much the same thing you said, with regards to Ne and Fi working together to perceive someone:
    I want to add to this thread, but I do not currently have access to the information that I want to provide. In the meantime, this is one of those interesting topics that I have argued since becoming aware of Socionics years ago. I don't consider myself SLI since regardless of system, it indicates someone with Si-Te. Whether you call it ISTp in Socionics or ISTJ in MBTI, it's still not the functions that I use. I use Ti-Se per Jung's description therefore would be ISTP in MBTI and LSI (ISTj) in Socionics. From that standpoint Fi or introverted ethics is described as:
    In the company of people smiles and acts like a good friend engaged in easy conversations, not without humor. Mechanistically approaches matters of wooing and relationship-building. The LSI often has trouble differentiating strong relationships from weak relationships. Often he will find himself unsure of his own opinion of the closeness of a relationship.
    Just curious, do you consider yourself SLI Phoenity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    It gets buried, but I dont know how to bury it, the feeling just disappears. Next time it comes on just as strong if not stronger. I tend to think first about the other persons feeling and that ends up making mine disappear into a hole until I am alone. Maybe this is Fe at work with Ti+Ni and putting others feelings before my own. I try to understand why they feel that way which delays my feelings. Then I honestly forget about it and it comes back stronger next time.
    Exactly, it gets buried because we don't want it there anymore. Sometimes it can be so overwhelming and consuming, all we can do is to rationalize it away, since it is so irrational in nature.

    We can work with Fe regarding other people's feelings to figure out why a situation happened because Fe has a more rational nature, at least to me.

    Fi to me is like this void that I know is part of me, but it's always stayed so far out of the grasp of my consciousness I don't understand how or why it works. When it begins to consume, I have to shut it down.

    Yet that is no way to go about solving a problem, because, like you said, when the situation happens again the same feeling comes back stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I want to add to this thread, but I do not currently have access to the information that I want to provide. In the meantime, this is one of those interesting topics that I have argued since becoming aware of Socionics years ago. I don't consider myself SLI since regardless of system, it indicates someone with Si-Te. Whether you call it ISTp in Socionics or ISTJ in MBTI, it's still not the functions that I use. I use Ti-Se per Jung's description therefore would be ISTP in MBTI and LSI (ISTj) in Socionics. From that standpoint Fi or introverted ethics is described as:
    Just curious, do you consider yourself SLI Phoenity?
    I know what you mean, and I've seen Poki speak about the inconsistencies between MBTI and Socionics. They seem to switch around the dominant functions for our type in terms of introversion and extroversion. This would seem to imply that one of the systems is incorrect. Yet I don't perceive it that way now, I just see them as different. I get lost in trying to figure out which is the correct system, since I don't know enough about either to determine that, and realized that there just isn't a point in doing so.

    I determined I could either be a Socionics ISTP (SLI) or ISTJ (LSI). The way I determined my Socionics type was not by Ti-Se or Si-Te, transferring the functions directly from MBTI, but rather their descriptions of how the functions worked, and how I used the function.

    So in doing that, I found that I identify with the SLI description very well, and not at all with the LSI description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I know what you mean, and I've seen Poki speak about the inconsistencies between MBTI and Socionics. They seem to switch around the dominant functions for our type in terms of introversion and extroversion. This would seem to imply that one of the systems is incorrect. Yet I don't perceive it that way now, I just see them as different. I get lost in trying to figure out which is the correct system, since I don't know enough about either to determine that, and realized that there just isn't a point in doing so.

    I determined I could either be a Socionics ISTP (SLI) or ISTJ (LSI). The way I determined my Socionics type was not by Ti-Se or Si-Te, transferring the functions directly from MBTI, but rather their descriptions of how the functions worked, and how I used the function.

    So in doing that, I found that I identify with the SLI description very well, and not at all with the LSI description.
    I have never fully relied on either descriptions or definitions and I rely heavily on interactions with others, its like a melting pot where you have to weed out the internal logic from the perception. Perception is not wrong, just not the whole picture, internal logic can be right or wrong. So there is truth in everything, its just a matter of being able to seperate things. Working from the big picture down to the detail.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I know what you mean, and I've seen Poki speak about the inconsistencies between MBTI and Socionics. They seem to switch around the dominant functions for our type in terms of introversion and extroversion. This would seem to imply that one of the systems is incorrect. Yet I don't perceive it that way now, I just see them as different. I get lost in trying to figure out which is the correct system, since I don't know enough about either to determine that, and realized that there just isn't a point in doing so.
    Agreed and when I initially learned of Socionics I asked forum (well back then we typed at Yahoo Groups about the differences. I was told that MBTI was correct because she got her blessings from Jung. However the only indication that references to them meeting was very briefly and Jung never publicly announced an agreement with her.

    However contrary to her theory, she says that introverted functions are unnoticeable or less noticeable than extraverted functions. Thus the auxiliary for introverts is the function seen. In practice that may be correct, but Jung does make reference to introverted functions being as noticeable as extraverted functions. So Socionics seems more likely than MBTI to be correct that the Ti is noticeable in me. In fact people who work with me directly have reported me to be ESTJ (same function order T-S-N-F), therefore can see the Ti.
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I determined I could either be a Socionics ISTP (SLI) or ISTJ (LSI). The way I determined my Socionics type was not by Ti-Se or Si-Te, transferring the functions directly from MBTI, but rather their descriptions of how the functions worked, and how I used the function. So in doing that, I found that I identify with the SLI description very well, and not at all with the LSI description.
    See….. this is where the Socionics theory gets dicey for me, not because of it’s inconsistency but because of the follower’s contradictions in attempting to explain it and separate it from MBTI after years of attempts at correlating the two. Again both systems say they derive from Jung’s cognitive functions. Also if you read the definitions of both, there is no difference. In fact Socionics does reference to LI also being known as Ti:
    Introverted logic ( ) is an introverted, rational, and static information element. It is also called Ti, L, structural logic, or white logic. Introverted logic is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty.
    Compare Socionics introverted logic to MBTIs introverted thinking
    Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work.
    I don’t think that anyone can argue Se since Socionics makes no attempt to call theirs anything but. However here again is Socionics and MBTIs definitions:
    Extroverted sensing ( ) is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Se, F, volitional sensing, or black sensing.
    Extroverted sensing includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required. Unlike , which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.
    You are one with the experience. There is no "naming" or describing - just pure, vivid experience. The whole scene comes into your awareness almost at once. You may be drawn to experience more and more, seeking any variation that will intensely excite the senses. Extraverted Sensing occurs when we scan for information that is relevant to our interests, then we mentally register data and facts such as baseball statistics, the locations of all the restaurants in town, or the names of all the actors in the popular television shows.
    They’re both using the same definitions, so determining that I prefer Ti-Se is the end result and should be easily transferred to either system and that should not change to Si-Te if both are being defined similarly.

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