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  1. #11
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Something I have noticed recently with me is that my Fi is completely subconcious. I have no desire to try and control it just understand it, it just drives me. If you can manage to figure out my Fi I will be pwned. Very few people have access to it. I have no control over who I give access to it either, it must be earned subconciously. 2 people can tell me the same thing, but unless I give you access to Fi it will never bother me.

    I have also noticed that I hold very few people close to me and I am extremely picky on finding these people. I really try to figure out who a person is, this lets me judge where I can hold them in my life. I try to figure out the dynamics between me and that person and that person and others. When I do let you in close I will be one of the most loyal person you have ever met because you have proven yourself to be worthy of it.
    As stated in my original post, I had a Psychological Report completed years ago and these are snippets that may be relevant to this.
    You possess the gift of a clear, strong and objective mind, and you are a lover of truth and integrity in all your dealings. You will always favour reason over chaos, and principles over personal reactions. But there is considerable conflict within you - a dilemma between your rational, detached spirit and your intense and sometimes overpowering feeling. Another way of describing your nature might be to say that you tend to live in your head -because it seems safer, more civilised, and more "decent" - yet your heart often contradicts what your mind tells you you "ought" to feel, leaving you confused and vaguely guilty about "bad" or "selfish" reactions.

    Although you may not be an intellectual in the conventional sense of the word, you are naturally quick and articulate, and possess an impressive capacity to assess, weigh and analyse diverse facts and ideas objectively and fairly. This has probably earned you the reputation of being broad-minded, reflective, ethical and considerate of others' points of view. You are also an excellent planner and can transform chaos into order with the penetrating power of your mind. What you do not wish others to know about you, and what you often try to hide from yourself, is that your real feelings give you a completely different and much more subjective picture of life and of others -and these neglected feelings are often more genuinely perceptive than your usually reliable mind.

    One of the most creative methods which you might use to make better friends with your feelings is the willingness to give more time and space for their expression through channels which you know to be safe - such as writing, painting images of moods or emotional states, working with clay, expressing feelings through music or dance. These very personal pursuits, done for your understanding alone and not for the benefit of an audience, can help you to learn more about yourself, and also help you to see that your feelings are as important and valid as your ideas.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Agreed and when I initially learned of Socionics I asked forum (well back then we typed at Yahoo Groups about the differences. I was told that MBTI was correct because she got her blessings from Jung. However the only indication that references to them meeting was very briefly and Jung never publicly announced an agreement with her.

    However contrary to her theory, she says that introverted functions are unnoticeable or less noticeable than extraverted functions. Thus the auxiliary for introverts is the function seen. In practice that may be correct, but Jung does make reference to introverted functions being as noticeable as extraverted functions. So Socionics seems more likely than MBTI to be correct that the Ti is noticeable in me. In fact people who work with me directly have reported me to be ESTJ (same function order T-S-N-F), therefore can see the Ti. See….. this is where the Socionics theory gets dicey for me, not because of it’s inconsistency but because of the follower’s contradictions in attempting to explain it and separate it from MBTI after years of attempts at correlating the two. Again both systems say they derive from Jung’s cognitive functions. Also if you read the definitions of both, there is no difference. In fact Socionics does reference to LI also being known as Ti: Compare Socionics introverted logic to MBTIs introverted thinkingI don’t think that anyone can argue Se since Socionics makes no attempt to call theirs anything but. However here again is Socionics and MBTIs definitions: They’re both using the same definitions, so determining that I prefer Ti-Se is the end result and should be easily transferred to either system and that should not change to Si-Te if both are being defined similarly.

    This is exactly what I was saying, if I understand you correctly.

    I understand perfectly that introverted logic is the same as introverted thinking, as well as introverted ethics being the same as introverted feeling. They define them as being the same, so that wasn't difficult to grasp the similarities even though they use slightly different terminology.


    The issue arises when MBTI states I use Ti-Se while Socionics states I use Si-Te. The better I've come to understand the cognitive functions, recognize their usage in others, and then myself, I know I use Ti-Se.

    However, Socionics claims that ISTJ (LSI) uses Ti-Se. This would be perfectly fine with me, except that in the LSI description of how the type uses those functions, I do not relate to a single function, whereas I relate perfectly to the description of ISTP (SLI). I relate to the introverted sensing description of SLI, and not at all to the extraverted sensing description of LSI.


    This just doesn't make any sense.

  3. #13
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    The issue arises when MBTI states I use Ti-Se while Socionics states I use Si-Te. The better I've come to understand the cognitive functions, recognize their usage in others, and then myself, I know I use Ti-Se.
    I think one of us is putting the chariot before the horse Phoenity. I infer you to say that because you are ISTP in both systems, your basic make-up in functions change per the system being used, i.e. Ti-Se in MBTI and Si-Te in Socionics. I am saying the opposite that I know I prefer Ti-Se thus regardless of the system I am the same in either. Therefore I am ISTP in MBTI and ISTj in Socionics. I cannot be the same type since they both define the function order similarly.
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    However, Socionics claims that ISTJ (LSI) uses Ti-Se. This would be perfectly fine with me, except that in the LSI description of how the type uses those functions, I do not relate to a single function, whereas I relate perfectly to the description of ISTP (SLI). I relate to the introverted sensing description of SLI, and not at all to the extraverted sensing description of LSI. This just doesn't make any sense.
    Agreed and that has less to do with the functions and more to do with poor descriptions by authors. I have no idea what Keirsey describes when reading his Craftsman description, yet the similar system of Berens/Nardi describes me perfectly. The same goes for other descriptions wherein I can see myself in the over all theme, but none of them will be 100% since Jung says that pure type is rare.

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