User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 15

  1. #1
    violaine
    Guest

    Default ISTPs - How Does One Have Those Kind of Conversations With You?

    I have a friend who is ISTP. (Definitely Dominant Ti, and very practical. I used to think he was INTP but he is far too practically minded.)

    He told me the other night that he has been really down for months. I was very taken aback and told him I would never have known... He started to talk about it and then stopped abruptly and said if he talked about it, it would feel worse.

    I would like to be there for him if possible. I don't understand his inner world well. My instinct is to not probe him too much but to let him know if he wants to talk I am there to listen. (Well, my instinct really is to hug him but he would probably freak out.) I want him to talk, he typically buries things that are painful or feeling oriented. Any suggestions as to what an ISTP might appreciate or respond to when they are feeling low?

  2. #2
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INfp
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    5,295

    Default

    From my experiences with my ISTP friend:

    He'll open up when he is ready, and pretty much not until then. However, it's important you communicate you are willing to listen. I do that by directly asking a question, but making it clear he doesn't have to answer. If he wants to talk about it, he'll answer. If he doesn't, we move on.

    Unless he considers you really close, he won't tell you his feelings, but he will still express them indirectly. Pay attention. Keep the topic on the situation that causes the feeling, and not the feeling. He may clam up, otherwise.

    What you can try to do is approach it from a problem solving perspective. See if he will tell you what's going on so he can analyze and try to come up with a solution. Ask for the facts, and incorporate the human element only afterward, when he needs to understand how it colors and complicates everything.

    Of course, if there is more than friendship going on, the rules might change. I don't know. I know that my ISTP friend will occasionally talk about emotions to his wife, when something has him down enough, but I don't know how she deals with that side of him.

  3. #3
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks Udog. Those are some really great suggestions... I find him baffling, in terms of what I could do to help. He will open up once or twice a year out of nowhere. Each time he's done it I feel like I completely fail at drawing him out and helping him as I am usually so stunned. I'm pretty sure he only ever talks to me about those things. We are just friends, albeit good, solid, close friends.

    Hmm, I definitely need to keep the human element out of it with him to begin with, hard for me to do...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I have a friend who is ISTP. (Definitely Dominant Ti, and very practical. I used to think he was INTP but he is far too practically minded.)

    He told me the other night that he has been really down for months. I was very taken aback and told him I would never have known... He started to talk about it and then stopped abruptly and said if he talked about it, it would feel worse.

    I would like to be there for him if possible. I don't understand his inner world well. My instinct is to not probe him too much but to let him know if he wants to talk I am there to listen. (Well, my instinct really is to hug him but he would probably freak out.) I want him to talk, he typically buries things that are painful or feeling oriented. Any suggestions as to what an ISTP might appreciate or respond to when they are feeling low?
    To talk about my own feelings means I have to think about them, to think about how I feel, and what's making me feel that way. It requires me to bring feelings to the foreground rather than buried where I have control over the feelings. To talk about my own feelings requires me to be in a state of mind where I can no longer be in control of my emotions and that makes me feel quite vulnerable, since I'm not used to being there. To get in touch with my feelings requires me to travel into my irrational mind, which is not a place I have a lot of experience.

    Throughout my life I've buried pain and feeling in the deepest parts of me, because I never had the tools or knowledge to deal with them. However, even buried they still cast this shadow over my mood, a shadow I couldn't see or feel for a long time, but looking back I know it was there and greatly affected my life. I now also know that other people could see this shadow, even when I thought they couldn't.

    Throughout my life I've preferred to deal with things on my own. Practical problems are easy to deal with as I simply think about them until I figure out a solution. However, some issues are not just black and white, but many shades of gray. Too many shades are difficult for my rational mind to deal with, so I shove them into a back closet so I can get on with my daily life, but this is also why the issues and feelings stick around for an extended period.

    So for as long as I can remember, issues in my life that have caused negative feelings I didn't know how to deal with were buried, where the fire didn't burn nearly as hot, but it was still there. This part of myself was dark and painful just to be there, so I avoided going and dealt with the "real" parts of my life. It took me 24 years to realize that I had to actually spend time in this dark place in order to ever have a chance of fighting any fires. So I forced myself to stay here so that I could become stronger and more knowledgeable about this part of myself.

    So I can relate to what your friend said. To talk about the feelings does make it worse, but the pain is only temporary. He's simply not looking ahead at the light at the end of the dark tunnel, perhaps because he doesn't yet know it's there. What he needs is a close friend he trusts to travel with and bring a light, as it's not fun place to go alone and inexperienced.

    Yet, I'll be the first to admit that I've never let anyone tell me what I needed. I only knew what I needed when I realized it myself from personal experience, then I curse myself for not listening to those people in the past. This has caused me to become more open and accepting of ideas that I previously thought were damaging or useless to me at the time.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    From my experiences with my ISTP friend:

    He'll open up when he is ready, and pretty much not until then. However, it's important you communicate you are willing to listen. I do that by directly asking a question, but making it clear he doesn't have to answer. If he wants to talk about it, he'll answer. If he doesn't, we move on.

    Unless he considers you really close, he won't tell you his feelings, but he will still express them indirectly. Pay attention. Keep the topic on the situation that causes the feeling, and not the feeling. He may clam up, otherwise.

    What you can try to do is approach it from a problem solving perspective. See if he will tell you what's going on so he can analyze and try to come up with a solution. Ask for the facts, and incorporate the human element only afterward, when he needs to understand how it colors and complicates everything.

    Of course, if there is more than friendship going on, the rules might change. I don't know. I know that my ISTP friend will occasionally talk about emotions to his wife, when something has him down enough, but I don't know how she deals with that side of him.

    I like this suggestion. The situation is a great place to start because it's something real I can talk about, whereas the feelings associated with the situation are difficult to grasp sometimes.

    Ultimately, I think it depends on the severity of the problem. Things that are mostly black and white are much easier for me to deal with on my own, even if they do involve a human element. The problem for me begins when the situation itself is difficult to deal with, when it's all human element. These are the types of issues likely to affect my mood for extended periods.

    I think your friend has made it clear that he's ready to open up, and has realized himself the need to do so, as he was the one who initiated the conversation with you. Only he stopped himself and turned back when became too dark and it started to hurt.

    I honestly can't think of any practical things you can do to help him. Just make sure he knows, tell him this directly since he may not "know", that you'll go there with him anytime he's ready to try again. I would suggest NOT keeping the human element out of it, since it seems rather serious since he's coming to you. I'm not sure it's possible for you to keep the human element out of it. And personally, I would not like that as it would turn me away from you. The inhuman analysis of me and my problem would feel cold and disconnected, completely unlike my warm, close friend I had just come to for a light.

    He's definitely lucky to have a friend like you. How did you become so close? In the past, anytime someone tried to get close I pushed them back to a distance I was comfortable keeping. If they pried, I pushed them away completely.

  6. #6
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INfp
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    5,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    Hmm, I definitely need to keep the human element out of it with him to begin with, hard for me to do...
    The fact that he's opening up to you shows he appreciates your insight and compassion towards emotions, so yeah, definitely don't lose that altogether. It's your strength; utilize it. You just want to avoid overwhelming him, or letting him overwhelm himself (as I suspect happened). That's what I meant.

    Phoenity's posts were awesome... and if you pay attention you can tell when he starts reaching that border of a rational to irrational mindset. When you see that, THATs when you back up a bit so he can keep himself grounded and comfortable.

  7. #7
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    To talk about my own feelings means I have to think about them, to think about how I feel, and what's making me feel that way. It requires me to bring feelings to the foreground rather than buried where I have control over the feelings. To talk about my own feelings requires me to be in a state of mind where I can no longer be in control of my emotions and that makes me feel quite vulnerable, since I'm not used to being there. To get in touch with my feelings requires me to travel into my irrational mind, which is not a place I have a lot of experience.

    Throughout my life I've buried pain and feeling in the deepest parts of me, because I never had the tools or knowledge to deal with them. However, even buried they still cast this shadow over my mood, a shadow I couldn't see or feel for a long time, but looking back I know it was there and greatly affected my life. I now also know that other people could see this shadow, even when I thought they couldn't.

    Throughout my life I've preferred to deal with things on my own. Practical problems are easy to deal with as I simply think about them until I figure out a solution. However, some issues are not just black and white, but many shades of gray. Too many shades are difficult for my rational mind to deal with, so I shove them into a back closet so I can get on with my daily life, but this is also why the issues and feelings stick around for an extended period.

    So for as long as I can remember, issues in my life that have caused negative feelings I didn't know how to deal with were buried, where the fire didn't burn nearly as hot, but it was still there. This part of myself was dark and painful just to be there, so I avoided going and dealt with the "real" parts of my life. It took me 24 years to realize that I had to actually spend time in this dark place in order to ever have a chance of fighting any fires. So I forced myself to stay here so that I could become stronger and more knowledgeable about this part of myself.

    So I can relate to what your friend said. To talk about the feelings does make it worse, but the pain is only temporary. He's simply not looking ahead at the light at the end of the dark tunnel, perhaps because he doesn't yet know it's there. What he needs is a close friend he trusts to travel with and bring a light, as it's not fun place to go alone and inexperienced.

    Yet, I'll be the first to admit that I've never let anyone tell me what I needed. I only knew what I needed when I realized it myself from personal experience, then I curse myself for not listening to those people in the past. This has caused me to become more open and accepting of ideas that I previously thought were damaging or useless to me at the time.
    I strongly suspect this is exactly how it is for my friend... and yes, I can see the shadow you speak of. He is so calm and collected but it's right there just under the surface. It's so obvious to me. It is very hard to just watch him be so stoically unhappy. btw, if I may say, it's cool that you have been able to make that journey. I would really like to be the friend that helps my friend in that regard as he does seem to reach out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I like this suggestion. The situation is a great place to start because it's something real I can talk about, whereas the feelings associated with the situation are difficult to grasp sometimes.

    Ultimately, I think it depends on the severity of the problem. Things that are mostly black and white are much easier for me to deal with on my own, even if they do involve a human element. The problem for me begins when the situation itself is difficult to deal with, when it's all human element. These are the types of issues likely to affect my mood for extended periods.

    I think your friend has made it clear that he's ready to open up, and has realized himself the need to do so, as he was the one who initiated the conversation with you. Only he stopped himself and turned back when became too dark and it started to hurt.
    This kills me. I can't bear thinking that he has to deal with that stuff alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I honestly can't think of any practical things you can do to help him. Just make sure he knows, tell him this directly since he may not "know", that you'll go there with him anytime he's ready to try again. I would suggest NOT keeping the human element out of it, since it seems rather serious since he's coming to you. I'm not sure it's possible for you to keep the human element out of it. And personally, I would not like that as it would turn me away from you. The inhuman analysis of me and my problem would feel cold and disconnected, completely unlike my warm, close friend I had just come to for a light.
    Ok. I think this is why he does open up to me, because I can't help but show that I care about him regardless. I'm never over the top about it because I know strong emotion freaks him out.

    But I sometimes assume that he just knows I will be there for him, so you are right, I need to tell him plainly that I will go there with him when he wants to try again. I know he can tell that I'm not put off by difficult emotions. I will definitely try and approach it not overly emotionally at the beginning though, as Udog suggested. I feel like there is this very fine line with him of him needing to see I care and his not being overwhelmed with strong emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    He's definitely lucky to have a friend like you. How did you become so close? In the past, anytime someone tried to get close I pushed them back to a distance I was comfortable keeping. If they pried, I pushed them away completely.
    Thank you... He's a really cool person. We just click as friends. I guess I got close because I have been very consistent with him and persistent and non-demanding. I know he feels like I accept him regardless and there is no agenda or pressure. I have really had to learn not to take his disappearing personally. I think the fact that I am also very self-contained and I go underground myself when I need alone time seems to mean we relate well.

    Thank you so much for all of your advice, this is exactly what I hoped someone would explain to me.

  8. #8
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    ...and if you pay attention you can tell when he starts reaching that border of a rational to irrational mindset. When you see that, THATs when you back up a bit so he can keep himself grounded and comfortable.
    Yup, that is definitely what I need to do. Very insightful! I typically get lost in compassion and don't do that quickly enough.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I strongly suspect this is exactly how it is for my friend... and yes, I can see the shadow you speak of. He is so calm and collected but it's right there just under the surface. It's so obvious to me. It is very hard to just watch him be so stoically unhappy. btw, if I may say, it's cool that you have been able to make that journey. I would really like to be the friend that helps my friend in that regard as he does seem to reach out to me.



    This kills me. I can't bear thinking that he has to deal with that stuff alone.



    Ok. I think this is why he does open up to me, because I can't help but show that I care about him regardless. I'm never over the top about it because I know strong emotion freaks him out.

    But I sometimes assume that he just knows I will be there for him, so you are right, I need to tell him plainly that I will go there with him when he wants to try again. I know he can tell that I'm not put off by difficult emotions. I will definitely try and approach it not overly emotionally at the beginning though, as Udog suggested. I feel like there is this very fine line with him of him needing to see I care and his not being overwhelmed with strong emotions.



    Thank you... He's a really cool person. We just click as friends. I guess I got close because I have been very consistent with him and persistent and non-demanding. I know he feels like I accept him regardless and there is no agenda or pressure. I have really had to learn not to take his disappearing personally. I think the fact that I am also very self-contained and I go underground myself when I need alone time seems to mean we relate well.

    Thank you so much for all of your advice, this is exactly what I hoped someone would explain to me.

    Who said anything about disappearing!? It's like you already know me. This is actually something I've done all my life. Gone out of people's lives without a backward glance or a goodbye, for various reasons, whether I was trying to push them away, or if I just needed an extended period alone. I've never looked at it as me "disappearing", but then again I've never thought about how other people perceived this behavior, or whether they take it personally.

    I've been continuing to think about what I said in my first response.

    Your question was how does another have conversations with me about my own feelings. Well, in order to do that, I first must be willing to have conversations with myself about my feelings. If I am unwilling or unprepared to venture into this dark unknown on my own, I am never going to go there with someone else. I think it was always a trust issue - even if I trust you and we're very close, I didn't trust myself not to get lost in the abyss.

    I think it's just a result of maturation. Yes, venturing into this irrational mind makes me experience strong emotions. It was overwhelming at first when I started making the journey, but as I gain experience and become stronger, it seems that I'm able to retain my usual calm consciousness from the rational side when crossing over. Rather than the strong emotions overwhelming me and causing me to retreat back to the unfeeling machine, I allow them to flow through me so that I can experience them in the moment and observe them, hold them in my hands attempting to find their true nature and cause, and ultimately their meaning. This is opposed to looking at them from afar from the other side of my mind, where they aren't understood, rationalized into nothingness, and ignored. The irrational side, however inferior and small it may appear from afar, doesn't appreciate this and keeps the fire smoldering as a constant reminder that it's there.

    It's very uncomfortable at first, but I realize now that the discomfort was what prevented me from going there before. My goal is to become a more mature, balanced person, so I can't keep hiding from things I don't understand or make me uncomfortable. No pain, no gain - I've finally learned that this applies physically and emotionally.

  10. #10
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    IsTP
    Posts
    1,334

    Default

    My best advice would to be find the angle. If he's anything like me, there's a song or a movie, a t.v. show, a book (some form of art) that embodies exactly what it is that bothers him. If you can find that angle he'll talk about it freely and objectively as possible and relate it to what's going on with him.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-05-2016, 10:55 AM
  2. How does one stop being jealous of another type?
    By Midoughni in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-27-2015, 03:01 AM
  3. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-28-2013, 04:34 AM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 07-24-2011, 07:08 PM
  5. [MBTItm] How Does One Deal With Heartbreak and Is Psychological Pain Necessarily Part Of It?
    By Winds of Thor in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 151
    Last Post: 05-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO