[SP] Sp's and tactics.

[ColonelGadaafi]

Well SP's are said to engage in tactics, that goes for both STP/SFP's. So the question to the resident SP's, how would you describe your appliance of tactics and tactile engagement?. And what is the diffrentation between STP/SFP Tactics.

 

[Halla74]

Well SP's are said to engage in tactics, that goes for both STP/SFP's. So the question to the resident SP's, how would you describe your appliance of tactics and tactile engagement?. And what is the diffrentation between STP/SFP Tactics.

What kind of tactics? Mental or physical? Work or play? Violent of non-violent? So many to describe, so short on Ritalin...

 

[JocktheMotie]

Ambiguity and confusion of their opponents and peers appears to be one...

 

[Halla74]

OK, slightly more serious answer now that I have a minute.

tac⋅tic   /ˈtæktɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tak-tik]
–noun
1. tactics (def. 1).
2. a system or a detail of tactics.
3. a plan, procedure, or expedient for promoting a desired end or result.


tac⋅ti⋅cal   /ˈtæktɪkəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tak-ti-kuhl]
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to tactics, esp. military or naval tactics.
2. characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements.
3. of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage.
4. expedient; calculated.
5. prudent; politic.

As far as I'm concerned use of the above two words assumes there is a conflict of some kind, personal or business. How do I handle things when "tactics" are in order?

Personal:
Very simple. If someone says/does something that is offensive or rude or completely uncalled for to me or someone I love, I stand up, point directly at their face, tell them what I didn't like and thell them they owe me an apology. If they don't apologize, because they think they are too good or whatever, then I read them the riot act and make clear to all present what a total and complete idiot that person is until they cry or leave or both.

Business:
Simple again. Question what was said that you disagree with. Immediately find an obvious, logical shortcoming of the proposed idea and make it known to the group. If there is a whiteboard in the room, stand up and grab a marker, and start mapping out my strategy, and talking through it.

The other person doesn't like it? Too bad, I'm standing, they're seated, I have command of the room. Everyone is looking at me, listening to me, and focused on my diagrams/info on the whiteboard and my opponent is now a bystander in the peanut gallery. If I continue to receive resistance then I get more brutal in pointing out problems with the other plan/idea to the degree of making my opponent that came up with them seem like a fool. I gave my opponent an out, they pushed further, now it's time to shut them down.

Life is short, time is precious. There is but one way to deal with conflict: HEAD-ON. Don't screw around, go for the throat and win first time around. There shouldn't be a round #2.

That's how us ESTPs roll...

Is that the type of answer you're looking for Introverted_esfp?

 

[Costrin]

Extremely simplified:

Tactics - a single battle.
Strategy - the whole campaign.

Tactics is micro, Strategy is macro.

imo

 

[Halla74]

Extremely simplified:

Tactics - a single battle.
Strategy - the whole campaign.

Tactics is micro, Strategy is macro.

imo

True, but if a campaign strategy is based on ineffective tactics then the whole campaign is fu*%ed. Right?

Bottomline, if you are going to engage in anything for tactical reasons, micro or macro, then the objective is to win, right?

Just checking...

 

[Costrin]

True, but if a campaign strategy is based on ineffective tactics then the whole campaign is fu*%ed. Right?

Bottomline, if you are going to engage in anything for tactical reasons, micro or macro, then the objective is to win, right?

Just checking...

Yup. You need both good strategy and good tactics to win. You can't have one without the other.

At least in most cases. To some extent, overwhelmingly good strategy or tactics can make up for the other, but you need at least a minimum in the other.

 

[Halla74]

Yup. You need both good strategy and good tactics to win. You can't have one without the other.

At least in most cases. To some extent, overwhelmingly good strategy or tactics can make up for the other, but you need at least a minimum in the other.

An interesting point, well put!

 

["?"]

Yup. You need both good strategy and good tactics to win. You can't have one without the other.

At least in most cases. To some extent, overwhelmingly good strategy or tactics can make up for the other, but you need at least a minimum in the other.

Agreed.... too much strategy with no tactics keeps you on course, but does not allow for flexibility when called for. Relying too much on tactics with no strategy means flying too much by the seat of the pants with no blueprint to maintain a course. I think that the recent campaign year showed good examples of too much of one and not enough of another and then how when balanced they work perfectly. McCain relied too much on tactics with insufficient strategy, Clinton had a good strategy in the beginning and end, but lost ground in the middle when her campaign could not respond quickly to turn of events, and Obama ran a flawless campaign balanced by tactics and strategy.

But to answer the question, I think asking the difference between SFP and STP is interesting, but probably should be equally asked of logistics between SFJs and STJs. One answer may be not to look at any temperament type as being that exclusively. With your dominant temperament, you also can have a secondary temperament. So it could be that STPs generally will be tactical/strategic or tactical/logistic and SFPs tactical diplomatic and tactical logistic. No facts to back that up, just my thoughts.

 

[Halla74]

Agreed.... too much strategy with no tactics keeps you on course, but does not allow for flexibility when called for. Relying too much on tactics with no strategy means flying too much by the seat of the pants with no blueprint to maintain a course. I think that the recent campaign year showed good examples of too much of one and not enough of another and then how when balanced they work perfectly. McCain relied too much on tactics with insufficient strategy, Clinton had a good strategy in the beginning and end, but lost ground in the middle when her campaign could not respond quickly to turn of events, and Obama ran a flawless campaign balanced by tactics and strategy.

But to answer the question, I think asking the difference between SFP and STP is interesting, but probably should be equally asked of logistics between SFJs and STJs. One answer may be not to look at any temperament type as being that exclusively. With your dominant temperament, you also can have a secondary temperament. So it could be that STPs generally will be tactical/strategic or tactical/logistic and SFPs tactical diplomatic and tactical logistic. No facts to back that up, just my thoughts.

That would be a cool cross analysis to do. It's interesting to consider that every MBTI type is pre-disposed to favor "throwing down" in a particular way vs. another... We must all deal with conflict (and hence require use of tactics and strategy) in our lives.

 

["?"]

It's interesting to consider that every MBTI type is pre-disposed to favor "throwing down" in a particular way vs. another... We must all deal with conflict (and hence require use of tactics and strategy) in our lives.

But there are temperaments that would have possibly very little preference for tactics/strategy, namely SFJs who (just in theory) would prefer logistics and then possibly diplomacy or NFs who could prefer diplomacy then logistics. I only use feeling types as an example because it seems that utilitarian seems more prone to thinking preference and cooperative to feeling preference (with the exception of STJs). In the end this is mere theory since a direct contradiction would be all SJs being logistical and counter strategic. Ergo per Keirsey it would seem that STJs could be more prone to logistical/tactical.

 

[Halla74]

But there are temperaments that would have possibly very little preference for tactics/strategy, namely SFJs who (just in theory) would prefer logistics and then possibly diplomacy or NFs who could prefer diplomacy then logistics. I only use feeling types as an example because it seems that utilitarian seems more prone to thinking preference and cooperative to feeling preference (with the exception of STJs). In the end this is mere theory since a direct contradiction would be all SJs being logistical and counter strategic. Ergo per Keirsey it would seem that STJs could be more prone to logistical/tactical.

Well put! Those are inclinations I do not consider on my own, as they are not my defaults, and at this point I am only beginning to understand my type/similar types well, and those less like mine are still a bit of an enigma.

All I know is that there are some situations of conflict (those involving potential physical injury/threat) where diplomacy and logic are an utter waste of effort. Sad but true, sometimes life throws stuff like that at us.

Best,

-Alex

 

[Jeffster]

I'm going to use the tactic of copying and pasting now, to put in this from my "Artisan temperament" thread:

Speaking of mornings, that's when the tactics begin at my place. More often than not, I wake up late and have immediate decisions to make about how much time I have to get ready for work and get my son to school, and have to decide in what order do I do these tasks to try to make both of us as on time as possible. Some days I realize I can still get Morgan to school in time for breakfast, so I focus entirely on crowbarring him out of bed and staying on him, badgering him hard until he's dressed and ready, I just throw on some pants and my shoes and whatever shirt I slept in, and then I drive him to school and drop him off before coming back home to jump in the shower and get myself ready. Sometimes I end up late anyway, but at least one of us was on time. Other days I realize I'm not going to get him there in time for breakfast so I let him take a little more time to get going in his unhurrying style and focus on getting myself ready so I get him breakfast on the go, get him there just a couple minutes late and get myself to work on time because I'm ready to go straight from the school to my office.

Once I get to the office, I have to scan my surroundings, check what stacks of paperwork I've been given, where and what I left off on the previous day and what I need to start doing before the phone calls start coming in. The phone calls themselves are another opportunity for tactics, as I've got to catch on to the scammers, decide whether a call for the owners or GMs is legit or just sales call, take sales numbers from the managers, get the managers who need to perform tasks on their store computers to take care of those, pay attention to whether the tasks I'm having my computer take care of are working properly, all the while not losing track of the work I started doing before the phone rang and be able to pick up where I left off or decide that work needs to be set aside to deal with a different problem or task that has arisen and needs a solution now.

When I still worked in the actual Subway restaurants as a manager, I did have a morning routine, but I still had to react to what was presented to me when I got there in the morning. Did the closer clean the store thoroughly? Did they pan the right amount of bread and prep the right meats/veggies for the morning? Did they handle the cash properly or leave me with improper safe deposits and overrings? Then I had to prioritize and decide quickly what order to do the needed tasks to give us the best chance of getting open on time with all products available for sale and the restaurant clean and ready for customers.

 

[Halla74]

I'm going to use the tactic of copying and pasting now, to put in this from my "Artisan temperament" thread:

Speaking of mornings, that's when the tactics begin at my place. More often than not, I wake up late and have immediate decisions to make about how much time I have to get ready for work and get my son to school, and have to decide in what order do I do these tasks to try to make both of us as on time as possible. Some days I realize I can still get Morgan to school in time for breakfast, so I focus entirely on crowbarring him out of bed and staying on him, badgering him hard until he's dressed and ready, I just throw on some pants and my shoes and whatever shirt I slept in, and then I drive him to school and drop him off before coming back home to jump in the shower and get myself ready. Sometimes I end up late anyway, but at least one of us was on time. Other days I realize I'm not going to get him there in time for breakfast so I let him take a little more time to get going in his unhurrying style and focus on getting myself ready so I get him breakfast on the go, get him there just a couple minutes late and get myself to work on time because I'm ready to go straight from the school to my office.

Once I get to the office, I have to scan my surroundings, check what stacks of paperwork I've been given, where and what I left off on the previous day and what I need to start doing before the phone calls start coming in. The phone calls themselves are another opportunity for tactics, as I've got to catch on to the scammers, decide whether a call for the owners or GMs is legit or just sales call, take sales numbers from the managers, get the managers who need to perform tasks on their store computers to take care of those, pay attention to whether the tasks I'm having my computer take care of are working properly, all the while not losing track of the work I started doing before the phone rang and be able to pick up where I left off or decide that work needs to be set aside to deal with a different problem or task that has arisen and needs a solution now.

When I still worked in the actual Subway restaurants as a manager, I did have a morning routine, but I still had to react to what was presented to me when I got there in the morning. Did the closer clean the store thoroughly? Did they pan the right amount of bread and prep the right meats/veggies for the morning? Did they handle the cash properly or leave me with improper safe deposits and overrings? Then I had to prioritize and decide quickly what order to do the needed tasks to give us the best chance of getting open on time with all products available for sale and the restaurant clean and ready for customers.

Jeffster! Nice examples of non-conflict centered tactics! Maybe my mindset is overly militant since I am an Army brat and my Dad is type-A hostile??? I now see the difference in these more everyday, efficiency/productivity tactics than those I discussed above.

Cheers Bro!

-Alex