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  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Just one more thing, I would really hesitate about saying the kid has a mental illness, putting him on medication, or sending him to a psychologist (at this point). Not only do I see no evidence of mental illness, but I think these things can be cured with solid, wise parenting.

  2. #12
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    I think there has been many good points made and it's probably a combination of factors. However this is a big red flag:

    About 1 year ago the son started changing on him and didn't seem to be too interested in school or anything else.
    This leads me to believe that something outside of the parenting skills of the father is going on (doubt he changed those). So what happened in his life about a year ago - some major trauma, started doing drugs, became depressed? Lack of interest in school, being very sloppy, etc. point to a mood issue. It would be interesting to know if this behavior continues at the mother's house.

  3. #13
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    There are any number of ways to "ask" a question. I wonder if we recorded ourselves while we asked our partners and friends questions, would we like what we heard? Do we undestand how the manner of our questioning sounds? A reasonable question is one that does not box a person in or put them on the defensive; a reasnable question requires forethought in the asking.

    I tend to test out ISfp, that is the "fp" is very near to flipping "sj" in certain situations. I assume the same for others of any type. To stuff all ISFP into one bag because of an experience that you had with a person that you claim was an ISFP demonstrates an unwillingness to delve very deep into the practical applications of type...which requires some objective, honest reflection... as any thoughtful consideration of relationship dynamics does.

    I'd like Quinlan and Wolfy to comment on this. When I am asked an "important" question; one that I consider personally important, I may not give a quick answer. I'm inclined to reflect and weigh carefully my past experience and the situation at hand, in order to provide an answer that comes as close as it can to being useful. I don't enjoy conflict; I find that it is largely a waste of time (and energy)in the end. Usually whatever resolution a conflict leads to, afterwards it is usually clear that the very same result could have been arived at with much less fuss, if only each participant would have been considerate (in every sense of the word).

    When I am in a close relationship with someone and I seem unresponsive it is probably because I sense that there is not an answer that I can provide that will not lead to some conflict internal or external. I would want to fix this; if I cannot I would feel practically impotent, and at that point my viable options (from my perspective) become very narrow. We all communicate on a variety of levels some deliberate and others unconcious. If I seem to "clam up" it is usually because I feel under attack or simply overwhelmed by the amount of sensory input that I am being required to process. I am listening; I am trying to take all the input and carefully sort it into a comprehensible arrangement. I have learned that there is a price to pay for every "transaction" I have with another and often I am wieghing that cost wether it falls to me or the other. My goal is to reach the fairest, best "deal" for both of us. Many people are impatient with this approach. I used to view this as a fault on their part; a lack of patience and understanding in a hurry to get things done without regard to the quality of the result. Now I try to view it more as just another approach to a problem. An aproach that gets things done, true. Sometimes getting things "done" is more important than the "how" of it. At least with places and things; people not so much.

    I believe that one indication of my ISfp preferences is my interest in the quality of results...somthing that I have sensed a lot of other folks don't seem to consider thoughtfully. As I walk through life I am enjoying the feel of things; their shape, placement and weight...I consider how they arrived at that state and where they might be going. If I am using them as food or material for building I feel responsible to make the most of their potential.If I am unable to fulfill this desire, I feel a sense of failure. I carry this attitude into relationships sometimes as well.
    Very well said Hirsch, I relate to a lot of what you've said. I have talked to Pecan previously about asking something that an ISFP sees as personal, and trying to get an immediate answer, it will probably be garbled and insincere. I need time to think about and process how I really feel about things. Like you said, unless it helps move towards a practical solution, is there really any point in saying anything at all? You put it in words much better than I could.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Very well said Hirsch, I relate to a lot of what you've said. I have talked to Pecan previously about asking something that an ISFP sees as personal, and trying to get an immediate answer, it will probably be garbled and insincere. I need time to think about and process how I really feel about things. Like you said, unless it helps move towards a practical solution, is there really any point in saying anything at all? You put it in words much better than I could.
    you guys seem to be assuming i am mean or pushy when asking...i am not, but i have gotten there due to no response...i still have issues and likely always will with ANYONE who can not simply state what is going on within a reasonable time fran=me...(within 3-5 days) that is plenty of time...there is such a thing as compromise and if you guys had to put up with what i did, even you would see what i mean...this guy didn't initiate or utter a word about his feelings for 10.5 YEARS, Yes, i said YEARS....that is totally out of the realm of reasonable...this guy had major problems that were not only of ISFpp nature...too long to explain but i have a good idea what happened in his early life that exacerbated his tendency to lie and withhold from everyone...and i mean everyone..

  5. #15
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    That is very extreme behaviour, I'm not sure we can help speak for them.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    I'd like Quinlan and Wolfy to comment on this. When I am asked an "important" question; one that I consider personally important, I may not give a quick answer. I'm inclined to reflect and weigh carefully my past experience and the situation at hand, in order to provide an answer that comes as close as it can to being useful. I don't enjoy conflict; I find that it is largely a waste of time (and energy)in the end. Usually whatever resolution a conflict leads to, afterwards it is usually clear that the very same result could have been arived at with much less fuss, if only each participant would have been considerate (in every sense of the word).
    If it is one that I consider personally important then I will not give a quick answer. I'd probably reflect look at past experiences, consider the people involved and try and see how events might occur. How the thing could play out.

    People can be impatient with that way of thinking. I think now reflecting on it just at this moment a lot of that is due to my tendency to get caught thinking through the variables and not communicate that I need time. From the outside it looks like I'm brushing off what was asked but that was almost never the case.

    EDIT I posted this as a direct response to Hirschs question.

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