I guess I didn't word that right. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me who I am. I'm looking for the why I am, and how that's different than other people. Using MBTI helps me look at things from a different perspective and work backwards.
As for the analogies - they were lost on me lol. You seem to be talking about identifying with functions, but I'm actually talking about comprehending myself using functions.
What nanook is referring to is what I was talking about in being able to see a little bit of yourself in alot of different people. If we focus on one thing we may actually believe we are that way. Its the reason people mis-identify themselves. Talking about how I feel I can relate alot with ENFPs and how they feel. Since I am shy i may believe I am an INFP. This would throw my comprehension of functions way off.
edit: this happens in relationships, where one can relate to anothers problems even though the drive behind it is different, the feeling is the same.
Originally Posted by nanook
well, there is only one truth, and its not like mbti and socioncis point at different aspects of the same truth, as if they segment it differently. the simply claim to point a "different truth" (as in: one of them must be wrong). so both will say that you are istp but one of them will say that your first function equals the second function of an estp (Ti), the other one will say that your first function equals the second function of an estj (Si). one of them must be wrong! many people don't believe that, though. they want to entertain a pluralistic mindset. say, the definitions are just different. the have not thought it through. someone might argue, that the systems are supposed to point to different people. after all there are people, whose first function equals Si or Ti. but if you explore the claims that are made about tertiary functions you will see, that this is not a possible way out of the dilemma.
but ultimately bot systems could be frigging wrong.
I see them as having a different focus We just gotta figure out the differences and learn how to merge them. It gets deeper than function difference and behaviour difference, but being ISTP in both systems it is harder for me to recognize the differences from a personal level and need to really understand another type that is different so I can recognize the differences and really figure it out.
being ISTP in both systems it is harder for me to recognize the differences from a personal level and need to really understand another type that is different so I can recognize the differences and really figure it out.
yes, you should learn to understand Te/Ti by observing extroverted sensing types. (this advice is for istx only)
once you are confident, that your thinking style is either Ti or Te, you can observe whether your thinking style is present in either esFj or esFp.
this way you can validate/falsify one of the systems.
if your T matches estj, then it is Te.
if you observe, that an esfj is using your Te*, you know that the mbti is wrong. if you see esfp using your Te then socionics is wrong.
this was easier for me, because feeling styles and intuition styles are so much more obvious, at least to my eyes-
so i can tell the difference between Fi and Fe, and i see both enfp and entp using Fi, so i know socioniocs is right, because mbti tells that entp uses Fe, which he is not. also i can tell what Ti is, because both entp and enfp to the same thinking, which is very analogue to Fi anyway. so i can tell, that i do not use Ti but Te (NiFeSiTe). allot of Ni feeling people have a Te phobia, and would rather assume that they make use of Ti. i used to have that phobia myself, and therefore liked the mbti much better for a long time. this phobia may be based on observation of entj. more than that its a Freudian thing. it represents the struggle with one's rational stage of development. falling in love with ken wilbers thinking helped me to set my suppressed Te free, to not deny it any longer. it can coexist with Fe peacefully. i still suck at Ne and Se.
You seem to be talking about identifying with functions, but I'm actually talking about comprehending myself using functions.
same thing. you identify with the pattern, that you see in yourself, while you are comprehending (applying a pattern). this may make you blind to discover, how other (more refined or just different) patterns could and should be applied to the same you.
for instance: if you are moody, an analyst will tell you that you are moody because your mother did not love you. an behaviorist will tell you that you are moody because you lack food. you know for a fact that you are moody, you lack food, and you lack a loving mother. you can feel like you suddenly totally comprehend yourself, or that you are now confused on a much higher level. the truth can not be found inside of you. patterns or comprehenstion is interpretation, and interpretation is a skill (guesswork) that needs to be fed on a lot of experience (which includes a lot of comparison). you have to observe other people, to see when they are moody. this may or may not tell you, if said interpretations about you moodiness' cause are likely true, or which one is more likely to be true. if both could be true, the attempt to understand you remains a frustrating confusion.
Ah-ha. I see what you mean now. It just wasn't apparent to me until you pointed it out that I went about it that way.
I have learned more about personality types by observing the functions in other people, than in myself. Observing these in other people has helped me come to a greater understanding of my own functions.
Basically, when I first tested and "determined" myself to be ISTP, it didn't really mean much to me. It wasn't until I could start observing and recognizing the functions of people I knew that it I saw a practical use.
Google has not really helped. Could someone who speaks my language please explain?
I was reading up on this and read that your Fe is inferior and least feeling function...but when activated, it's visible. Also it's usually noticed in an all-or-nothing manner, as it operates unconsciously. So when it's activated it's sensitive...meaning it will either benefit you greatly or be perilous. A suggestion is to supervise it and protect it from predators and other problems.
"..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'
phoenity, i dont know if you are istp (an introverted sensorical perceiver=Si) or TiSe but for the moment i will asume that you are an introverted sensorical perceiver:
istp value loyality dont they?
loyality as in getting your hands dirty for your friends.
(dirty means, that you may break your personal values, in favor of relational values)
such loyality is all about Fe.
you got got into an argument with an enfp about how much you care for people (quote "Lies!"), its a typical misunderstanding. like intp you either defend your weak Fe or hide it (to pretend invulnerability). but in any case, the Fe-caring is something different from what an enfp thinks of when he refers to his own Fi. (sympathy vs empathy)
such loyality is not to be confused with staying true to an aid that one has sworn (which would be an Fi or Ti interpretation of the word). like "just because this company became corrupt and morally bankrupt, doesnt mean i cant continue to work for this company in an upright honest and moral way, i have sworn to the ideals of the company, after all"
thats not to say, that xiTe and xiFe people dont value a steadyness in their course of action (as sworn once), but its more a strategical value (at least in introverted people) as it can seem very twisted to others, as it is situational. like when you claim "if this company doest stop its corrupt ways, i will retire in protest" and you will feel like you have to actually do this, even if it kills you.