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  1. #21
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    from the forum:

    "Fe is the lava that boils out.
    Fi is the fire inside that started it all.

    Fe sings.
    Fi composes.

    Fe asserts itself.
    Fi just IS.

    Fe is the bird.
    Fi is the song.

    Fe is contagious.
    Fi is seductive.

    Fe feels for others.
    Fi feels for self.

    Fe resounds.
    Fi resonates.

    Fe is the smile that leads to the kiss.
    Fi is the butterfly in your chest that led to the smile.

    Fe makes decisions based on values.
    Fi makes decisions based on PERSONAL values.

    Fe reaches out.
    Fi pulls in."
    this is all kinds of lovely.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    phoenity, i dont know if you are istp (an introverted sensorical perceiver=Si) or TiSe but for the moment i will asume that you are an introverted sensorical perceiver:

    istp value loyality dont they?
    loyality as in getting your hands dirty for your friends.
    such loyality is all about Fe.

    (introverted sensorical peceiver (thinking) = SiTeNiFe)

    you got got into an argument with an enfp about how much you care for people (quote "Lies!"), its a typical misunderstanding. like intp you either defend your weak Fe or hide it (to pretend invulnerability). but in any case, the Fe-caring is something different from what an enfp thinks of when he refers to his own Fi. (sympathy vs empathy)

    such loyality is not to be confused with staying true to an aid that one has sworn (which would be an Fi or Ti interpretation of the word). like "just because this company became corrupt and morally bankrupt, doesnt mean i cant continue to work for this company in an upright honest and moral way, i have sworn to the ideals of the company, after all"

    thats not to say, that xiTe people dont value a steadyness in their course of action (as sworn once), but its more a strategical value and as it can seem very twisted to others, as it is situational. like when you claim "if this company doest stop its corrupt ways, i will retire in protest" and you will feel like you have to actually do this, even if it kills you.

    i collect my notes in my blog
    It seems like MBTI is more based on apparent behaviour which changes. Socionics tends to be more based on who you are. I fit ISTP in both. I MBTI Fe is about doing things for other people before doing things for yourself. When other people are good to go, you can think about yourself. This is why an ENFJ will crash if they dont get thier Fe under control. This is also how an ISTP will crash as they get to know more people. We will hold those we know and care about on a pedestal and put them before our own needs. Prioritizing based on those we love the most. We end up being limited by our time as to who we can help. When those we care about the most are good, we turn to help someone else, letting the person we love the most be on there own until they need us.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    phoenity, i dont know if you are istp (an introverted sensorical perceiver=Si) or TiSe but for the moment i will asume that you are an introverted sensorical perceiver:

    istp value loyality dont they?
    loyality as in getting your hands dirty for your friends.
    (dirty means, that you may break your personal values, in favor of relational values)
    such loyality is all about Fe.

    (introverted sensorical peceiver (thinking) = SiTeNiFe)

    you got got into an argument with an enfp about how much you care for people (quote "Lies!"), its a typical misunderstanding. like intp you either defend your weak Fe or hide it (to pretend invulnerability). but in any case, the Fe-caring is something different from what an enfp thinks of when he refers to his own Fi. (sympathy vs empathy)

    such loyality is not to be confused with staying true to an aid that one has sworn (which would be an Fi or Ti interpretation of the word). like "just because this company became corrupt and morally bankrupt, doesnt mean i cant continue to work for this company in an upright honest and moral way, i have sworn to the ideals of the company, after all"

    thats not to say, that xiTe and xiFe people dont value a steadyness in their course of action (as sworn once), but its more a strategical value (at least in introverted people) as it can seem very twisted to others, as it is situational. like when you claim "if this company doest stop its corrupt ways, i will retire in protest" and you will feel like you have to actually do this, even if it kills you.

    i collect my notes in my blog
    I have a more clear understanding of it now that I have heard so many perspectives and really looked into it.

    As for my "argument" with CaptainChick, it was just playful. I know I can be that way with ENFPs. I was simply letting her know she misunderstood, and that while her bf may have seemed like a heartless bastard, I am not. I never took anything personally because that's just not something I do.

    Thank you Nanook - I like your description of Fe. I am very loyal to my friends and I will do anything for them (given it's not against my values), without needing anything in return.

    As for Si vs Se, I read the descriptions and I'm pretty sure I do both, but with a preference toward Se.

    defend your weak Fe or hide it (to pretend invulnerability)
    I'm guilty of that as well, when I understood much less about myself. I've since realized it's a flaw of mine so it's something I try to work on simply by being more aware of it and using it.

    I used to pretend invulnerability, but I feel genuinely happier when I acknowledge my weaknesses.

  4. #24
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki
    I fit ISTP in both. I MBTI Fe is about doing things for other people before doing things for yourself. When other people are good to go, you can think about yourself. This is why an ENFJ will crash if they dont get thier Fe under control. This is also how an ISTP will crash as they get to know more people. We will hold those we know and care about on a pedestal and put them before our own needs. Prioritizing based on those we love the most. We end up being limited by our time as to who we can help. When those we care about the most are good, we turn to help someone else, letting the person we love the most be on there own until they need us.
    totally agree, this is Fe.

    exept this is what all ixxp do (albeit they are less proactive, but feel bad about it) and statistically introverted perceivers (Si or Ni people) seem to test as ixxp and ixxp in both mbti and socioncs, while introverted judgers (Fi or Ti) test in much more mixed ways.


    mbti people will claim that the above were true for isfj and infj, because, as stated elsewhere (insert link), Fi values concrete action for others as proof of ones goodness, whereas introverted peceiver (Si or NI) have a conflicting view on peoples qualities.

    so obviously Fi people will often waste themselves for their own values ("i need to be a good serving person, even if no one is asking for it and even if no one thinks that my serving is actually serving or if no one sees it = isfj/infj = Fi")

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    totally agree, this is Fe.

    exept this is what all ixxp do (albeit they are less proactive, but feel bad about it) and statistically introverted perceivers (Si or Ni people) seem to test as ixxp and ixxp in both mbti and socioncs, while introverted judgers (Fi or Ti) test in much more mixed ways.


    mbti people will claim that the above were true for isfj and infj, because, as stated elsewhere (insert link), Fi values concrete action for others as proof of ones goodness, whereas introverted peceiver (Si or NI) have a conflicting view on peoples qualities.

    so obviously Fi people will often waste themselves for their own values ("i need to be a good serving person, even if no one is asking for it and even if no one thinks that my serving is actually serving or if no one sees it = isfj/infj = Fi")

    I guess what stumps me is that I dont really understand having so many personality types to define a persons behavior. I have a need to figure out the difference and bring the 2 together. It really stumped me because I am ISTP on both. I would have questioned it, but I believe I have a good enough understanding of each function to know who I am. Its crazy that the more I understand the basics of people and type I can actually figure out how to relate so much more to everyone. Its like I finally have enough of an understanding to be alot more comfortable around people. I have become so much more talkative IRL and its causing my Fe to really come out.

    I see that in Fi and actually envy it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I guess what stumps me is that I dont really understand having so many personality types to define a persons behavior. I have a need to figure out the difference and bring the 2 together. It really stumped me because I am ISTP on both. I would have questioned it, but I believe I have a good enough understanding of each function to know who I am. Its crazy that the more I understand the basics of people and type I can actually figure out how to relate so much more to everyone. Its like I finally have enough of an understanding to be alot more comfortable around people. I have become so much more talkative IRL and its causing my Fe to really come out.

    I see that in Fi and actually envy it.
    Nanook loses me as well - it must be the N

    I originally came here because I was trying to understand and learn about myself. As I do that and understand my own personality, it helps me recognize differences in other personalities and adapt to how I can best interact with them.

    Understanding myself is the key that opens that door. Being comfortable in knowing who I am makes me more secure in dealing with others.

  7. #27
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    generally true for everyone:

    if you look for validation of who you are, you will find it. i could tell you, that your first function is being stoned, and you would imagine a stone and see your own qualities in that stone and agree with me and even thank me for pointing that out.

    its just a pity if you are actually a turtle.

    being a turtle and having a shell like a stone, you can actually do stone things (lying around, falling down), but may not discover what you really are good for.
    also, a true stone may smash you, if you mess with him.

    so, identifying with abstract things like "functions", can be a dangerous thing

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    generally true for everyone:

    if you look for validation of who you are, you will find it. i could tell you, that your first function is being stoned, and you would imagine a stone and see your own qualities in that stone and agree with me and even thank me for pointing that out.

    its just a pity if you are actually a turtle.

    being a turtle and having a shell like a stone, you can actually do stone things (lying around, falling down), but may not discover what you really are good for.
    also, a true stone may smash you, if you mess with him.

    so, identifying with abstract things like "functions", can be a dangerous thing
    Thats the benefit of being ISTP. I try to always validate against the bigger picture and never lose sight of it. In finding who I am I found parts of me that relates to alot of people.

    The way an ISTP thinks is by finding the root definition, so its like our own internal abstract. Thats why I cant understand how we can have BOTH socionics and MBTI. We really do look for the simplest meaning that cannot encompass more than one thing. thats why alot of the "definitions" confuse me, because it tells what it does, but a function cannot do anything on its own. Its like a math problem really where you have so many equations and you have to derive what each variable or function means on its own. To me its reverse engineering.

    edit: I really like your analogies and insight

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Thats the benefit of being ISTP. I try to always validate against the bigger picture and never lose sight of it. In finding who I am I found parts of me that relates to alot of people.

    The way an ISTP thinks is by finding the root definition, so its like our own internal abstract. Thats why I cant understand how we can have BOTH socionics and MBTI. We really do look for the simplest meaning that cannot encompass more than one thing. thats why alot of the "definitions" confuse me, because it tells what it does, but a function cannot do anything on its own. Its like a math problem really where you have so many equations and you have to derive what each variable or function means on its own. To me its reverse engineering.

    edit: I really like your analogies and insight
    Exactly, Poki.

    I guess I didn't word that right. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me who I am. I'm looking for the why I am, and how that's different than other people. Using MBTI helps me look at things from a different perspective and work backwards.

    As for the analogies - they were lost on me lol. You seem to be talking about identifying with functions, but I'm actually talking about comprehending myself using functions.

  10. #30
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    well, there is only one truth, and its not like mbti and socioncis point at different aspects of the same truth, as if they segment it differently. the simply claim to point a "different truth" (as in: one of them must be wrong). so both will say that you are istp but one of them will say that your first function equals the second function of an estp (Ti), the other one will say that your first function equals the second function of an estj (Si). one of them must be wrong! many people don't believe that, though. they want to entertain a pluralistic mindset. say, the definitions are just different. they have not thought it through. someone might argue, that the systems (types of one system) are supposed to point to different people. after all there are actually people, whose first function equals Si or Ti. but if you explore the claims that are made about third and fourth functions you will see, that this is not a possible way out of the dilemma. the systems are totally a-symmetrical.

    but ultimately both systems could be frigging wrong.

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