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[ESTP] ESTP's, lend me your aid

BerberElla

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My ESTP 15 yr old sister has run away from home. She is staying with my other sister in the mean time, but she won't talk about it, she won't open up about whatever is bothering her.

Basically my parents found out she has a boyfriend, my parents are strict muslims (my sister had to wear a scarf/hijab), and beat her so she called the police, the police came and she ended up going to my sister house.

This is basically the end of my family, all 6 children who could run away, have now run away from home. My enfp brother lives with me for similar reasons, and of course I ran as did all my other sisters and my other brother.

I understand why she has run away, but she has closed everyone out. She cries, but not like I would cry. It's a few tears and she gets mad and forces herself to stop. You can tell she is tough, but unless she opens up how can we help her deal with the trauma she is feeling right now?

I want to help her, but unlike with my enfp brother (who did open up to me) she is a closed book.

How can I help her?
 

Amargith

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I'm no ESTP, but I'd take her for a walk,for instance somewhere in a park, and try to explain to her that you've been there, that it is ok to feel sad, and scared, and to show it to you. Maybe, if you sense she's interested, even talk about your own experience. Then give her time to let it sink in. Show her a good time, go to the movies and occasionally touch upon the subject, respecting her wishes if she doesn't wanna talk, but being there if she does.


Good luck, this isn't an easy situation :)
 

BerberElla

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I'm no ESTP, but I'd take her for a walk,for instance somewhere in a park, and try to explain to her that you've been there, that it is ok to feel sad, and scared, and to show it to you. Maybe, if you sense she's interested, even talk about your own experience. Then give her time to let it sink in. Show her a good time, go to the movies and occasionally touch upon the subject, respecting her wishes if she doesn't wanna talk, but being there if she does.


Good luck, this isn't an easy situation :)

I did that with her yesterday as it happens, it's like my natural way of approaching someone who needs to know that someone understands their position.

I'm just second guessing my approach because she is an ESTP, and mine is an NF approach.
 

Amargith

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Yeah..I can imagine that that requires a different approach..can't help you then myself :)
Why don't you approach Luke..isnt' he an ESTP?
 

"?"

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I am not ESTP as well, but from all accounts I have read that ESTPs are the first to leave home anyhow. Since she has witnessed the physical abuse of her siblings have you considered that she may be thinking there is really nothing to talk about? What happened, happened and she may be moving on. That in itself is not healthy, but may be her way of dealing with it for now. In ten years her account of what occurred may be different than yours, becasue she (assuming that she is ESTP) will reinvent her life and deny much of what occurred in her childhood. All SPs look at the past in a pessimistic manner.
 

BerberElla

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I am not ESTP as well, but from all accounts I have read that ESTPs are the first to leave home anyhow. Since she has witnessed the physical abuse of her siblings have you considered that she may be thinking there is really nothing to talk about? What happened, happened and she may be moving on. That in itself is not healthy, but may be her way of dealing with it for now. In ten years her account of what occurred may be different than yours, becasue she (assuming that she is ESTP) will reinvent her life and deny much of what occurred in her childhood. All SPs look at the past in a pessimistic manner.

I can understand that, but she is 15 and the situation is that my sister currently looking after her is a temporary thing.

She wouldn't talk to the police when they turned up, she won't speak to a social worker, and without speaking about it, or at least expressing her reasons for wanting to leave home (obviously the violence) she will have nowhere to stay.

I can't take her in, I'm happy to try but I have 3 kids, plus my brother here and he sleeps on the couch.

Meh fuck it, if my other sister says she has to go she can come here, she can share my bed with me if necessary.

It's just a very messed up situation now. Social services are totally crap. :steam: They took me and my eldest sister away from our parents when I was 13, the violence was extreme so they stepped in. With all of this on record they have still turned away all my other siblings when those siblings have reached an age to admit they are being abused, they didn't help my 16yr old brother, told him to go back home so he ended up coming to me, same with another brother.

I even had my other sister sleeping on the floor with me when I was living in a hostel aged 17, again because they wouldn't help.
 

Halla74

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My ESTP 15 yr old sister has run away from home. She is staying with my other sister in the mean time, but she won't talk about it, she won't open up about whatever is bothering her.

Basically my parents found out she has a boyfriend, my parents are strict muslims (my sister had to wear a scarf/hijab), and beat her so she called the police, the police came and she ended up going to my sister house.

This is basically the end of my family, all 6 children who could run away, have now run away from home. My enfp brother lives with me for similar reasons, and of course I ran as did all my other sisters and my other brother.

I understand why she has run away, but she has closed everyone out. She cries, but not like I would cry. It's a few tears and she gets mad and forces herself to stop. You can tell she is tough, but unless she opens up how can we help her deal with the trauma she is feeling right now?

I want to help her, but unlike with my enfp brother (who did open up to me) she is a closed book.

How can I help her?

Wow, I really feel for you and your family right now. I am off the charts ESTP and will do my best to help a bit. Also, I went to high school and college in Northern Virginia/D.C. area and know many Muslim families, some very traditional and some that are less strict, so I am not ignorant as to what type of stresses can occur in domestic situations like this.

OK, here's the deal from my perspective. Forcing rligious customs, wardrobe, and limiting a young person's life experiences will no doubt cause some type of trauma, in the case of Muslims, females are more severely affected.

It is very likely that your parents have voiced their cultural beliefs and associated fears (sex before marriage, getting bad grades and not amounting to anything, etc.) to your sister, and that your sister feels they are accusing her of being capable of realizing these fears, instead of them trying to dissuade her from living them.

This is a big deal, especially to an ESTP. We are generally easy going and let things go that other people would carry grudges about for years, but when it comes down to someone marring our personal image, or if we come to believe that someone (parents, lovers, friends, etc.) thinks very bad things about us, then we have very real potential to turn those people off in our hearts and shut them out of our lives so we can go about being ourselves without dealing with their baggage.

In your case, I would be sure to let her know that you are there for her, but don't try to get her to open up. Just spend some time with her if you can, go get some food, go see a movie, whatever, just get some air and let a few positive experiences between you and her occur without having to dwell on this issue. She'll open up pretty quickly if you do that, I expect, as we ESTPs are pretty much an open book, and love to talk, but just need to be in the right frame of mind to do so, because just like anyone else we can get upset too, especially more so when we are younger and still formulating our self image.

Hey, I wish you the best and hope your family steers through this as unscathed as possible.

People will live up to your worst expectaions of them. If you have only positive, good expectaions of people then that is what they will live up to in your eyes, as they are happy as hell you think highly of them. If someone knows you have low expectaions of them, then they will not feel bad when they do screw something up for you because they know you never thought much of them in the first place. Your parents need to learn this!
 

BerberElla

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Wow, I really feel for you and your family right now. I am off the charts ESTP and will do my best to help a bit. Also, I went to high school and college in Northern Virginia/D.C. area and know many Muslim families, some very traditional and some that are less strict, so I am not ignorant as to what type of stresses can occur in domestic situations like this.

OK, here's the deal from my perspective. Forcing rligious customs, wardrobe, and limiting a young person's life experiences will no doubt cause some type of trauma, in the case of Muslims, females are more severely affected.

It is very likely that your parents have voiced their cultural beliefs and associated fears (sex before marriage, getting bad grades and not amounting to anything, etc.) to your sister, and that your sister feels they are accusing her of being capable of realizing these fears, instead of them trying to dissuade her from living them.

This is a big deal, especially to an ESTP. We are generally easy going and let things go that other people would carry grudges about for years, but when it comes down to someone marring our personal image, or if we come to believe that someone (parents, lovers, friends, etc.) thinks very bad things about us, then we have very real potential to turn those people off in our hearts and shut them out of our lives so we can go about being ourselves without dealing with their baggage.

In your case, I would be sure to let her know that you are there for her, but don't try to get her to open up. Just spend some time with her if you can, go get some food, go see a movie, whatever, just get some air and let a few positive experiences between you and her occur without having to dwell on this issue. She'll open up pretty quickly if you do that, I expect, as we ESTPs are pretty much an open book, and love to talk, but just need to be in the right frame of mind to do so, because just like anyone else we can get upset too, especially more so when we are younger and still formulating our self image.

Hey, I wish you the best and hope your family steers through this as unscathed as possible.

People will live up to your worst expectaions of them. If you have only positive, good expectaions of people then that is what they will live up to in your eyes, as they are happy as hell you think highly of them. If someone knows you have low expectaions of them, then they will not feel bad when they do screw something up for you because they know you never thought much of them in the first place. Your parents need to learn this!

Thanks for that halla :) that really makes alot of sense.

Where she is right now, with my other sister (esfj) things aren't any better, she might not be suffering violence, but my esfj sister is criticising her so much right now.

I had to step in and tell her to stop and take my estp sister to the side and tell her that I disagreed with my esfj sister, and that I had total faith that she was smart enough to make the right choices and that whatever was going on in her head was no ones right to judge. She hugged me so I guess I said the right things.

I think she needs to be here with me, I am not judgemental, nor do I put pressure on anyone to conform like my esfj sister does.

My estp sister is getting bad grades aswell, but unlike my esfj sister I don't blame that on a lack of intelligence, just on the issues surroudning her right now.

I know she is tough, I just ache for her having to go through the same shit we had to.
 

Halla74

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Thanks for that halla :) that really makes alot of sense.

Where she is right now, with my other sister (esfj) things aren't any better, she might not be suffering violence, but my esfj sister is criticising her so much right now.

I had to step in and tell her to stop and take my estp sister to the side and tell her that I disagreed with my esfj sister, and that I had total faith that she was smart enough to make the right choices and that whatever was going on in her head was no ones right to judge. She hugged me so I guess I said the right things.

I think she needs to be here with me, I am not judgemental, nor do I put pressure on anyone to conform like my esfj sister does.

My estp sister is getting bad grades aswell, but unlike my esfj sister I don't blame that on a lack of intelligence, just on the issues surroudning her right now.

I know she is tough, I just ache for her having to go through the same shit we had to.

Hey, you are quite welcome. It sounds like you did the right thing for sure. If you are willing to let her live with you, is she willing to move in with you? It seems like it should be a no brainer to her, but she is in a bad state so not much is going to be easy for her right now. I have a ESTJ friend who can be an overbearing bitch sometimes. I don't know if that's a J thing or what. The EST side of her is funny as hell, but sometimes she can be overbearing, as your sister seems to be capable of.

Her grades will come up once the stress in her life subsides and she has some peace, I guarantee it.

Best to you all! :hug:
 

BerberElla

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Hey, you are quite welcome. It sounds like you did the right thing for sure. If you are willing to let her live with you, is she willing to move in with you? It seems like it should be a no brainer to her, but she is in a bad state so not much is going to be easy for her right now. I have a ESTJ friend who can be an overbearing bitch sometimes. I don't know if that's a J thing or what. The EST side of her is funny as hell, but sometimes she can be overbearing, as your sister seems to be capable of.

Her grades will come up once the stress in her life subsides and she has some peace, I guarantee it.

Best to you all! :hug:

Oh she would come and live here in a heartbeat, I'm always the place of choice when my siblings have left home. It's that special something that everyone wants a piece of, ME lol. :D

My esfj sister on the other hand, well she won't part with her just yet, she is very controlling. I know it's just a matter of time, since she is very clear it's a temporary thing, but she is trying to get my estp sister to go home, and she won't even let me talk to her on the phone today because she knows I will make arrangements for my sister to come stay here.

It will be a tight squeeze, but if she needs it she is welcome.

I'm going to send my brother down to tomorrow to meet my sister at her school and give her mobile so that I can speak to her.
 

Halla74

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I'm going to send my brother down to tomorrow to meet my sister at her school and give her mobile so that I can speak to her.

There you go, fight dirty! I like your style. Good luck! :D
 

nozflubber

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mmmmm, I think this situation has little to do with ESTP-hood....

One thing I do know that you'll not want to do is try to make decisions for your ESTP sister.... the ENFPs go ON AND ON about how you can't squash their independance, well ESTPs are for real about that. you can help anyway you like but you also gotta let her decide things
 

Udog

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In your case, I would be sure to let her know that you are there for her, but don't try to get her to open up. Just spend some time with her if you can, go get some food, go see a movie, whatever, just get some air and let a few positive experiences between you and her occur without having to dwell on this issue. She'll open up pretty quickly if you do that, I expect, as we ESTPs are pretty much an open book, and love to talk, but just need to be in the right frame of mind to do so, because just like anyone else we can get upset too, especially more so when we are younger and still formulating our self image.

I agree 100% with this. She's a 15 year old that is very violently being thrust into an adult world. She needs time; her entire world is upside down right now.

If you establish yourself as a safe place, and halla's advice is excellent for that, she'll open up. Just keep in mind she isn't like your ENFP brother, so you may not get Fi fueled conversations from her.
 

BerberElla

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There you go, fight dirty! I like your style. Good luck! :D

I'm up against an ESFJ lol got no choice but to pull out the big guns. :D

mmmmm, I think this situation has little to do with ESTP-hood....

One thing I do know that you'll not want to do is try to make decisions for your ESTP sister.... the ENFPs go ON AND ON about how you can't squash their independance, well ESTPs are for real about that. you can help anyway you like but you also gotta let her decide things

That's why I will offer her the choice to come here, because I know I would never try to squash her independence. My esfj sister will, she has confiscated her phone, she is ferrying her to and from school, basically she is setting up a hostile environment in the hopes that my estp sister will crack and go back home totally ignoring the fact that she herself ran away from home for much the same reasons. When I remind esfj sister of this fact she convieniently? has a different memory that paints her as dutiful daughter who didn't quite run away from, and had better reasons for it than my estp sister does. :rolleyes:

Fair enough, we do have more extreme reasons, I was battered into a coma and burnt with hot knives, whereas my estp sister got a slap, but violence is violence.

I agree 100% with this. She's a 15 year old that is very violently being thrust into an adult world. She needs time; her entire world is upside down right now.

If you establish yourself as a safe place, and halla's advice is excellent for that, she'll open up. Just keep in mind she isn't like your ENFP brother, so you may not get Fi fueled conversations from her.


Pretty much this realisation that made me start this thread, I know it won't be quite the same and wanted to know what would help for her, not for me.
 

Halla74

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One thing I do know that you'll not want to do is try to make decisions for your ESTP sister.... the ENFPs go ON AND ON about how you can't squash their independance, well ESTPs are for real about that. you can help anyway you like but you also gotta let her decide things

You are right! We are a very stubborn lot! Sorry about that, y'all! ;)
 

Udog

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Pretty much this realisation that made me start this thread, I know it won't be quite the same and wanted to know what would help for her, not for me.

The good news is there's a solid chance she will appreciate your insight and thoughts, as long as you don't try to judge HER. I've had great conversations with ESTPs where I share my Fi/Ne fueled thoughts on situations. When she starts to open up, start trickling your thoughts out a bit and see how she responds.
 

BerberElla

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The good news is there's a solid chance she will appreciate your insight and thoughts, as long as you don't try to judge HER. I've had great conversations with ESTPs where I share my Fi/Ne fueled thoughts on situations. When she starts to open up, start trickling your thoughts out a bit and see how she responds.


I wouldn't, I empathise with her situation way too much to find anything she is doing now baffling or worthy of judgement.
 

Halla74

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The good news is there's a solid chance she will appreciate your insight and thoughts, as long as you don't try to judge HER. I've had great conversations with ESTPs where I share my Fi/Ne fueled thoughts on situations. When she starts to open up, start trickling your thoughts out a bit and see how she responds.

That's the way to do it, absolutely, let her initiate the conversation and then say a word here or there as she is at a stopping point. In times like this I know I would not listen, until I had first been heard.
 
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