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[ISFP] The Official Nobody Hates ISFPs Thread

wolfy

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I think the reason that ISFP come across as non judgemental is the same reason they sometimes think they are judgemental. Makes perfect sense.
 

wolfy

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Now with all this talk of being judgemental I am beginning to doubt it. We all are in some way judgemental at some time. Does that make us judgemental? Maybe not...could there be an error in my ways?
 

KDude

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Well Fi is a judging function. And it is our dominant way of interacting in the world ;) I know that doesn't always entail judgement in the sense we're discussing here - more like evalutating on all kinds of levels. But it doesn't exclude the realm of behavior either. Maybe some ISFPs might not have the same interests there though.. Just like how not all INTPs are interested in the same things.. but I would find that pretty strange, since F's are inclined towards human interest stuff and the emotional angle of things in one way or another..and could easily empathize with those getting hurt. And fight or at least avoid the ones causing it (On the flipside, a T could look at the same person's behavior, weigh it's cause and effect, pros and cons, where it'd ultimately lead them, etc.. and come to the conclusion that they're stupid. Which is also judgement in it's own way). Whether it's all vocalized or not is probably the beside the point. I think that just comes down with whether someone is comfortable with conflict or not. I barely am comfortable, but I don't always think that's a positive.
 

XYZ

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Well Fi like Ti is an internally directed judging function so it is meant for the user of the function only.

People that are commonly seen as 'judgemental' generally are ExxJ's and IxxJ's because they have extroverted/externally directed judgement (Te or Fe) in their top 2 functions - which is judgement for outside influence - so it is stimulating or is done at a low energy cost when using these functions.

We all have one external judgement function, but for IxxP's, the external judgement function is inferior function (highest energy cost in using), so they will appear the least 'judgemental.'
 

KDude

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I've read that before.. This for instance.

ISFPs are questors, driven to find the pure and ideal, as personally and individually defined. Feeling may temporarily turn outward, but cannot be long sustained beyond its cloistered home. If the individual has values greater than herself, feeling may express itself in valiant acts of selflessness.


ISFJs are driven by the conventional, by 'should's and 'ought's; ISFPs internalize their Feeling (by nature a judging function) which bursts out spontaneously and leaves as quickly and mysteriously as it came.

Because of these variant expressions of Feeling judgement, ISFPs are sometimes confused with ESFJs, but keep themselves more aloof, more often concealing the feelings that ESFJs are so apt to expose.


but interesting way of putting it. Yeah, it is energy costing.. I see people who can sustain it, and that's not me at all. I don't even understand that. Some things have to be done though.
 

wolfy

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Is the outward expression of a judgment part of the definition of judgmental? It is hard to tell...

Adj. 1. judgmental - depending on judgment; "a judgmental error"; "I think that she is too judgmental to be a good therapist"
nonjudgmental - refraining from making judgments especially ones based on personal opinions or standards; "sympathetic and nonjudgmental"

Nonjudgmental

Nonjudgmental is a descriptor that conveys the opposite meaning to the pejorative sense of value judgment: it expresses avoidance of personal opinion and reflex "knee-jerk" reactions.


If expression is part of it as it seems to be then everybody is judgmental is wrong. Which is awesome because I was getting down on myself about it.

I'd say isfp were pretty non judgemental in that sense.
 

wolfy

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I've read that before.. This for instance.

ISFPs are questors, driven to find the pure and ideal, as personally and individually defined. Feeling may temporarily turn outward, but cannot be long sustained beyond its cloistered home. If the individual has values greater than herself, feeling may express itself in valiant acts of selflessness.


ISFJs are driven by the conventional, by 'should's and 'ought's; ISFPs internalize their Feeling (by nature a judging function) which bursts out spontaneously and leaves as quickly and mysteriously as it came.

Because of these variant expressions of Feeling judgement, ISFPs are sometimes confused with ESFJs, but keep themselves more aloof, more often concealing the feelings that ESFJs are so apt to expose.


but interesting way of putting it. Yeah, it is energy costing.. I see people who can sustain it, and that's not me at all. I don't even understand that. Some things have to be done though.

I can understand the energy thing. I wonder what is meant by the pure and ideal. I suppose it is something like the pizza shop I was talking about in my blog. Your own personal vision. This fantasy thing has got me thinking on ideals...
 

Kasper

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I'd say isfp were pretty non judgemental in that sense.

Eye, I'd agree with you. ISFPs seem more non judgemental than most types, typically. We all make judgements and conclusions, we also all make observations but we're not all judgemental, to be so we need to add subjective personal opinions or standards as the definition says, people who see a situation and yet do not apply their own morals or standards to them and therefore do not make a judgement disprove the rule you initially claimed.

Ergo, we are not all judgemental.

ISFPs fair pretty well from an outsiders pov, particularly considering ya'll are Fi doms.
 

wolfy

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Eye, I'd agree with you. ISFPs seem more non judgemental than most types, typically. We all make judgements and conclusions, we also all make observations but we're not all judgemental, to be so we need to add subjective personal opinions or standards as the definition says, people who see a situation and yet do not apply their own morals or standards to them and therefore do not make a judgement disprove the rule you initially claimed.

Ergo, we are not all judgemental.

ISFPs fair pretty well from an outsiders pov, particularly considering ya'll are Fi doms.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think I just go, been judgmental once, judgmental. There in lies one of the secret to the isfp's easy going accepting nature. Thanks for making me think on it. Always fun.
 

KDude

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I suppose it is something like the pizza shop I was talking about in my blog. Your own personal vision. This fantasy thing has got me thinking on ideals...

Well, as I've stated, i'm focused on ethics (for lack of a better word). Not sure what else could come close to qualifying on the same level of ideals. I wouldn't even say art has anything to do with the purity I'm looking for. Art is just fun and another form of physical therapy for me.

If I can express it all in a way without being judgemental, but more... by doing good work or lifting the mood somewhere, that's what I want. But I can't resist being judgemental if I have to. I don't think it's anything to feel bad about. I can think of someone like Rosa Parks, who had a sharp tongue and the strength to call people out on their bullshit. She could have been pleasant and tolerated people, but instead she changed a lot in this country with one little moment of judgement. So did Martin Luther King, and even the guy in my avatar. Brando condemned the movie industry for perpetuating racial stereotypes, like how Native Americans were portrayed. And a lot of people tried to make him out to be unpleasant about it - but in the longrun, he did a small part in making bullshit like that less common.
 

wolfy

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I know what you mean, I think that is really great and I love that in people. I just don't see that in me when I reflect on my life. Looking after those close to me, sure. That has always been a big thing. But being part of a bigger cause hasn't really happened. I mean I have fought for ideals on a smaller scale but I don't see that as being my dominant thing, fighting for a cause. I think when I look back I am thinking if I am strong and the people around me are strong then that is my part. That is my cause.

That is how I come at ideals I think. Really close to home.
 

wolfy

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Well, as I've stated, i'm focused on ethics (for lack of a better word). Not sure what else could come close to qualifying on the same level of ideals. I wouldn't even say art has anything to do with the purity I'm looking for. Art is just fun and another form of physical therapy for me.

I would say that looking back at my life I have always tried to express myself through something physical. Either by screwing it up or doing it well.
 

KDude

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I know what you mean, I think that is really great and I love that in people. I just don't see that in me when I reflect on my life. Looking after those close to me, sure. That has always been a big thing. But being part of a bigger cause hasn't really happened. I mean I have fought for ideals on a smaller scale but I don't see that as being my dominant thing, fighting for a cause. I think when I look back I am thinking if I am strong and the people around me are strong then that is my part. That is my cause.

That is how I come at ideals I think. Really close to home.

Well, that's cool too. I don't mean to say I'm a big idealist either. Just that I can't help letting things slip past if I see them. I haven't joined any causes either (I've tried actually a little, but I never stay long.. just volunteer), but I try to find the ideal with things in my presence. It could be harmless things.. but sometimes I've gotten mean as well. Like seeing a friend getting screwed by some roommate...and getting frustrated that no one wants to do anything about him, and watching him go about his happy way just being a dick, making a mess, not paying rent, etc. I don't even remember what I did there, but I vaguely recall jumping into this situation and pressing his face against a hardwood floor, and urging him to knock his shit off. Or something like that. :blush: Needless to say, the guy actually moved not long afterwards, which was not my intent..but it turned out for the better. Long story. I just think there are some things worth shouting "WTF?!" with. Yet, I think I'm ISFP. It's not like I'm trying to be ESTP or something (or a brave NF for that matter).
 

wolfy

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I've flipped at things like that lots of times. Just something where it has struck something and you know that can't be left. It needs to be dealt with, right there and then. No mincing your words.
 

KDude

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haha. Yeah, we're basically on the same page.

Out of that one list though, only Rosa Parks was doing things that way. She was just coming home from work, and her feet hurt, and she wanted to sit on the bus. She was told to stand and make way for a white man. She didn't. But that was kind of a unique situation where something small blew into something bigger. I can't say I've experienced that, but it's kind of cool.
 

wolfy

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haha. Yeah, we're basically on the same page.

Out of that one list though, only Rosa Parks was doing things that way. She was just coming home from work, and her feet hurt, and she wanted to sit on the bus. She was told to stand and make way for a white man. She didn't. But that was kind of a unique situation where something small blew into something bigger. I can't say I've experienced that, but it's kind of cool.

Yeah, I could see how that could happen. And if it did I could see myself ride it for all that it is worth.

My thing with fantasy, I am mixing threads now. Is that it is an illusion, it isn't an ideal. I can't let myself buy into something that isn't real so I reject it. I think that is part of my thing with fantasy. It is too sweet. I really don't know, there is something.
 

KDude

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It's weird.. Joan's thread is the first time I even thought that SP's might not enjoy that stuff as much. I didn't even know it was an issue. If it is, I am an N. I love a lot of that shit, man. To carry it further, I see that the general sentiment behind most of those stories is just heroism anyways. You could apply the same plots to a cop movie that takes place in Cleveland, and it'd provoke the same emotions in me. Or to use an example from another genre- Fistful of Dollars is basically Yojimbo. Just different setting. Doesn't matter to me, I guess. I don't have a bias towards settings.
 

wolfy

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I think some do, Quin seems to. If I can see the heroism I can buy into a story, story-wise I like heroes that are flawed. To me that is real. I remember being really into the idea of the hero's journey for a year or so. I really don't have much at the moment, I need to think about it some more...
 

KDude

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Flawed is ok, but I definitely like the good guys. Anti-heroes are for T's dude. :D
 

wolfy

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Haha, I might need to go T. I was looking through a list of heroes, might be interesting to list who you like. We could stick with film, it is easy to compare.
 
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