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  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I say this is Fi idealism as described by Jung:
    Looks really interesting to pull apart. I don't really get it yet and need to put it into other words.

  2. #222
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Looks really interesting to pull apart.
    that's very Ti man

    there was a cool illustration i ran across once describing how different functions would arrange a bookshelf.. wish i could find it. if anyone knows what i'm talking about, post it here.

  3. #223
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    btw, have you ever checked out socionics wolfy? i think it helps flesh out ideas about mbti. in some ways, it's a completely different thing, but worth checking out (try wikisocion for function descriptions). i myself think i might be more like infp there. hell, i even kinda look like one if any of that VI shit is to be believed.

  4. #224
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Nice avatar, Kdude. I used the exact same one for a while on here.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

    The SP Spazz Youtube Channel

  5. #225
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    haha. didnt know that. i should change it then.

  6. #226
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I am thinking of how there is an ideal in me of how something should be. I read somewhere that isfp need to have experienced something first hand. I kind of agree but not fully. I think there is always a pull in me towards doing something in a way that I feel is, I suppose honourable is the right word, in a way that honours what I am doing. There is always a fight between that and laziness. I know in my gut how it should be, now can I pull it off. Something like that in how I think.

    Like how Pirsig used the word quality. Pirsig's metaphysics of Quality
    i think i understand. sometimes i have a real need to "do the right thing" - to achieve the best possible good in what i am doing. honorable is a good word for it, i had never thought of it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I say this is Fi idealism as described by Jung:
    that is a great quote! so idealism is seeking a vision of something that doesn't exist. that makes a lot of sense to me.

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    that's very Ti man

    there was a cool illustration i ran across once describing how different functions would arrange a bookshelf.. wish i could find it. if anyone knows what i'm talking about, post it here.
    Funny how my functions always test as some mix of Se, Fi, Ti, Ni at top and then the rest. I have to be pretty introverted.

    I don't know if I have seen that quote, I get a feeling I have. Maybe it was on that Lenore wiki, I am not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    btw, have you ever checked out socionics wolfy? i think it helps flesh out ideas about mbti. in some ways, it's a completely different thing, but worth checking out (try wikisocion for function descriptions). i myself think i might be more like infp there. hell, i even kinda look like one if any of that VI shit is to be believed.
    I have read a bit. I tested as istp a lot in socionics and kind of related to the description. I tested as isfp the other day though and that fits too. Socionics is interesting, I should take a better look again.


    Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    that is a great quote! so idealism is seeking a vision of something that doesn't exist. that makes a lot of sense to me.
    It is a great quote. And it really does define idealism well. The only thing is I feel I do accommodate to the objective fact for the most part. I'm usually seeking an image that exists in reality. I am not sure on the inner intensity, I feel I am after intensity of expression more than an inner intensity.

    I need to think about that some more. Maybe look at the alternative Ti for some comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    i think i understand. sometimes i have a real need to "do the right thing" - to achieve the best possible good in what i am doing. honorable is a good word for it, i had never thought of it that way.
    Yeah, that is what I meant.

  8. #228
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    did you say your wife was isfp too? that's pretty cool. how are you alike/different?

    Ti is for me is something i developed late. also, it's not a "first course" for me.. i think. i try my best to sometimes double check areas with it though. or if i have no choice to use anything else, i'm obviously in thinking mode.. like operating machinery or something. that'd be pretty whack to go on feelings there all in all though, problem solving on that level is not really my strength.

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    did you say your wife was isfp too? that's pretty cool. how are you alike/different?
    She is prettier and smarter, I am more stupid and ugly. I am more slap happy, she is more conscientious. Things like that...

    I'm the easy going nice guy that got lucky.

    I was reading that introverted thinking when coupled with extraverted sensation is a kind of tacit knowledge that is bought to the situation at hand. I think that introverted feeling coupled with sensation is also the same. But I can't put my finger on how it would change it. Other than a people orientation and that is too confined. What is meant by a personal connection? What is a comparison, impersonal? I can only see a really vague separation here.

    Look at this...

    p. 366: "Introverted Feeling ... encourages a personal relationship to an evolving pattern, a will to gauge the situation by an experiential ideal. For example, if we use Introverted Feeling to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won't follow recipes or measure ingredients. We'll sample the sauce as we're making it, gauging its taste, smell, and texture by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging pattern stays on track."

    Introverted feeling...It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

    p. 146: "It happens when we're kneading bread and the pressure of our hands changes with the texture of the dough. It happens when we're moving a ball downcourt for a chance at the hoop. It happens when we're driving, alert to a whole field of sights and sounds. It happens when we're playing in a band. It happens when we're knitting a sweater. Every time our actions are changing immediately and directly in concert with our surface perceptions, we're drawing on Extraverted Sensation."

    p. 146: "The only way to cultivate Extraverted Sensation is by hands-on involvement--by strengthening the link between sensory perception and neural response. Our bodies have to get into the act. For types who use this function as their primary approach to life, true knowledge is always concrete, a product of firsthand experience."

    p. 287: "As a right-brain function, Introverted Thinking is not conceptual and linear [contra Extraverted Thinking]. It's body-based and wholistic. It operates by way of visual, tactile, or spatial cues, inclining us to reason experientially rather than analytically."

    Introverted thinking is a form of mental representation in which every input, every variable, every aspect of things is considered simultaneously and holistically to perceive causal, mathematical, and aesthetic order. What you know by Ti, you know with your hands, your eyes, your muscles, even a tingling sensation "downstairs" because you sense that everything fits. Every variable is fair game to vary, every combination of variables worthy of consideration; the only ultimate arbiter is how well the parts form a unified whole rather than a jumble.

    Orienting by Ti, you track causal harmony: you are part of the system, you do your part to fit in with that overall way that things make sense and harmonize. You get into "the flow" or "the zone". You need a gestalt sense of order to know what to do--a sense that you feel in your body, in your mind, in everything at once. "I get it." Without that, you are lost.


    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Ti is for me is something i developed late. also, it's not a "first course" for me.. i think. i try my best to sometimes double check areas with it though. or if i have no choice to use anything else, i'm obviously in thinking mode.. like operating machinery or something. that'd be pretty whack to go on feelings there all in all though, problem solving on that level is not really my strength.
    I quite like problem solving, I did a lot of study on the different systems a couple of years ago. That was my hobby before I got interested in this stuff. I really like the abstract stuff, sit quietly in a corner and think through a problem. I was really into the different systems, TRIZ, mind mapping, brain storming, De Bono's stuff, books on design thinking, all this kind of stuff that I had a lot of fun reading, learning and playing with. I kind of regret how I have pushed that to the side. My favourite author is Michael Michalko. His books are jam packed with fun stuff.

  10. #230
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I can only see a really vague separation here.
    Perhaps you are a little of both. More than I am, I believe. I don't feel as disciplined with Ti, and see a big seperation. Even using this place as an example: well thought out, logically consistent/respectable posts,for example, take me a long, somewhat hair pulling time to compose. It's not at the core of how I operate. More like an alternative. I'm a very slow, frustrated T. But a very fast drawing, passionate F. If that makes sense. I'm more confident and sure of what I'm doing that way.

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