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  1. #181

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    I think the reason that ISFP come across as non judgemental is the same reason they sometimes think they are judgemental. Makes perfect sense.

  2. #182

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    Now with all this talk of being judgemental I am beginning to doubt it. We all are in some way judgemental at some time. Does that make us judgemental? Maybe not...could there be an error in my ways?

  3. #183
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Well Fi is a judging function. And it is our dominant way of interacting in the world I know that doesn't always entail judgement in the sense we're discussing here - more like evalutating on all kinds of levels. But it doesn't exclude the realm of behavior either. Maybe some ISFPs might not have the same interests there though.. Just like how not all INTPs are interested in the same things.. but I would find that pretty strange, since F's are inclined towards human interest stuff and the emotional angle of things in one way or another..and could easily empathize with those getting hurt. And fight or at least avoid the ones causing it (On the flipside, a T could look at the same person's behavior, weigh it's cause and effect, pros and cons, where it'd ultimately lead them, etc.. and come to the conclusion that they're stupid. Which is also judgement in it's own way). Whether it's all vocalized or not is probably the beside the point. I think that just comes down with whether someone is comfortable with conflict or not. I barely am comfortable, but I don't always think that's a positive.

  4. #184
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    Well Fi like Ti is an internally directed judging function so it is meant for the user of the function only.

    People that are commonly seen as 'judgemental' generally are ExxJ's and IxxJ's because they have extroverted/externally directed judgement (Te or Fe) in their top 2 functions - which is judgement for outside influence - so it is stimulating or is done at a low energy cost when using these functions.

    We all have one external judgement function, but for IxxP's, the external judgement function is inferior function (highest energy cost in using), so they will appear the least 'judgemental.'

  5. #185
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I've read that before.. This for instance.

    ISFPs are questors, driven to find the pure and ideal, as personally and individually defined. Feeling may temporarily turn outward, but cannot be long sustained beyond its cloistered home. If the individual has values greater than herself, feeling may express itself in valiant acts of selflessness.


    ISFJs are driven by the conventional, by 'should's and 'ought's; ISFPs internalize their Feeling (by nature a judging function) which bursts out spontaneously and leaves as quickly and mysteriously as it came.

    Because of these variant expressions of Feeling judgement, ISFPs are sometimes confused with ESFJs, but keep themselves more aloof, more often concealing the feelings that ESFJs are so apt to expose.


    but interesting way of putting it. Yeah, it is energy costing.. I see people who can sustain it, and that's not me at all. I don't even understand that. Some things have to be done though.

  6. #186

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    Is the outward expression of a judgment part of the definition of judgmental? It is hard to tell...

    Adj. 1. judgmental - depending on judgment; "a judgmental error"; "I think that she is too judgmental to be a good therapist"
    nonjudgmental - refraining from making judgments especially ones based on personal opinions or standards; "sympathetic and nonjudgmental"

    Nonjudgmental

    Nonjudgmental is a descriptor that conveys the opposite meaning to the pejorative sense of value judgment: it expresses avoidance of personal opinion and reflex "knee-jerk" reactions.


    If expression is part of it as it seems to be then everybody is judgmental is wrong. Which is awesome because I was getting down on myself about it.

    I'd say isfp were pretty non judgemental in that sense.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I've read that before.. This for instance.

    ISFPs are questors, driven to find the pure and ideal, as personally and individually defined. Feeling may temporarily turn outward, but cannot be long sustained beyond its cloistered home. If the individual has values greater than herself, feeling may express itself in valiant acts of selflessness.


    ISFJs are driven by the conventional, by 'should's and 'ought's; ISFPs internalize their Feeling (by nature a judging function) which bursts out spontaneously and leaves as quickly and mysteriously as it came.

    Because of these variant expressions of Feeling judgement, ISFPs are sometimes confused with ESFJs, but keep themselves more aloof, more often concealing the feelings that ESFJs are so apt to expose.


    but interesting way of putting it. Yeah, it is energy costing.. I see people who can sustain it, and that's not me at all. I don't even understand that. Some things have to be done though.
    I can understand the energy thing. I wonder what is meant by the pure and ideal. I suppose it is something like the pizza shop I was talking about in my blog. Your own personal vision. This fantasy thing has got me thinking on ideals...

  8. #188
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I'd say isfp were pretty non judgemental in that sense.
    Eye, I'd agree with you. ISFPs seem more non judgemental than most types, typically. We all make judgements and conclusions, we also all make observations but we're not all judgemental, to be so we need to add subjective personal opinions or standards as the definition says, people who see a situation and yet do not apply their own morals or standards to them and therefore do not make a judgement disprove the rule you initially claimed.

    Ergo, we are not all judgemental.

    ISFPs fair pretty well from an outsiders pov, particularly considering ya'll are Fi doms.

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Eye, I'd agree with you. ISFPs seem more non judgemental than most types, typically. We all make judgements and conclusions, we also all make observations but we're not all judgemental, to be so we need to add subjective personal opinions or standards as the definition says, people who see a situation and yet do not apply their own morals or standards to them and therefore do not make a judgement disprove the rule you initially claimed.

    Ergo, we are not all judgemental.

    ISFPs fair pretty well from an outsiders pov, particularly considering ya'll are Fi doms.
    Yeah, I agree with you. I think I just go, been judgmental once, judgmental. There in lies one of the secret to the isfp's easy going accepting nature. Thanks for making me think on it. Always fun.

  10. #190
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I suppose it is something like the pizza shop I was talking about in my blog. Your own personal vision. This fantasy thing has got me thinking on ideals...
    Well, as I've stated, i'm focused on ethics (for lack of a better word). Not sure what else could come close to qualifying on the same level of ideals. I wouldn't even say art has anything to do with the purity I'm looking for. Art is just fun and another form of physical therapy for me.

    If I can express it all in a way without being judgemental, but more... by doing good work or lifting the mood somewhere, that's what I want. But I can't resist being judgemental if I have to. I don't think it's anything to feel bad about. I can think of someone like Rosa Parks, who had a sharp tongue and the strength to call people out on their bullshit. She could have been pleasant and tolerated people, but instead she changed a lot in this country with one little moment of judgement. So did Martin Luther King, and even the guy in my avatar. Brando condemned the movie industry for perpetuating racial stereotypes, like how Native Americans were portrayed. And a lot of people tried to make him out to be unpleasant about it - but in the longrun, he did a small part in making bullshit like that less common.

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