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  1. #81
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    It's hard to be honest with yourself. When I started being honest though some things started being lower and lower as I took it... When I first took the test Fe and Ni were very high up there. I was lying to myself. Then I realized what I was doing, now I answer things as they are and realize my weaknesses. Thus Fe being at the bottom now.

    It's your choice as to how to use an instrument. Anyone can lie to themselves to be a certain type too.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #82
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Duh...? So then are you asserting that BlackCat was either lying or mistaken?
    Take the test and put in whatever you want. I am not saying that Black Cat is lying, I am saying that the test does not have preventive measures to keep you from remaining objective. It will allow you to claim 0-100% any functions. Hell anyone can claim any function order. However, Jung and Myers-Briggs both state you cannot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    From that passage I see that Jung is saying that you can only have one dominant function. I never disagreed with that.
    Then keep reading, because he clearly says that a feeling function cannot equate to the thinking function if dominant and vice-versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    I disagreed with your assertion that the functions were zero sum. That increasing one function decreased it's opposite.
    And I am only in agreement that one or the other per Beebe and/or Thompson may agree. However, as stated the test given by Black Cat will allow me to purport any function(s) to be dominant or equal to even the dominant function.
    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    You are the one who made this assertion, therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove that this is the case.
    Thought I just did. He says that feeling and thinking functions cannot be equal. Your turn.

  3. #83
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's hard to be honest with yourself. When I started being honest though some things started being lower and lower as I took it... When I first took the test Fe and Ni were very high up there. I was lying to myself. Then I realized what I was doing, now I answer things as they are and realize my weaknesses. Thus Fe being at the bottom now.

    It's your choice as to how to use an instrument. Anyone can lie to themselves to be a certain type too.
    Thanks for the honesty Black Cat, but it was never in question and thanks for appreciating the principles of Jung's theory.

  4. #84
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Take the test and put in whatever you want. I am not saying that Black Cat is lying, I am saying that the test does not have preventive measures to keep you from remaining objective. It will allow you to claim 0-100% any functions. Hell anyone can claim any function order. However, Jung and Myers-Briggs both state you cannot.
    Yes. This is obvious. This happens in all assessments of this nature.

    Then keep reading, because he clearly says that a feeling function cannot equate to the thinking function if dominant and vice-versa.
    If dominant. Ok, yeah. I didn't disagree with this.

    And I am only in agreement that one or the other per Beebe and/or Thompson may agree. However, as stated the test given by Black Cat will allow me to purport any function(s) to be dominant or equal to even the dominant function.
    All such tests will allow you to be untruthful. What do you propose then would be a good way of providing evidence to you?

    Thought I just did. He says that feeling and thinking functions cannot be equal. Your turn.
    You quoted Jung. Where is Jung's evidence?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  5. #85
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    You quoted Jung. Where is Jung's evidence?
    Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.

  6. #86
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.
    First, I believe it is role, not strength that determines type. Second, I never stated that opposite functions could be used equally. Perhaps it is true that that is the case, but I am not prepared to make that claim. However, it is clear that even if not equally, an increase in one function does not automatically decrease the use of its opposite, as you claimed. Third, perhaps it is bunk, then what?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  7. #87
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.
    I think you're finally barking up the right tree!
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  8. #88
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    As a kid before the age of of 13-14 I was defiantly not an ESTP. I used to avoid people and day dream! Yes thats right I was an INTP

    I'd like to challenge those who think your MBTI type cannot change over time. I decided I didn't like who I was back then at all. I remember having very few friends...

    So I stopped being that daydreamer that was constantly thinking of all sorts of random ideas, started living in the now, became more aware of my surroundings and finally started interacting more with people... and you know what.

    ITS GREAT

    Heres to being ESTP!
    Luke

    | E 60% | S 60% | T 90% | P 95% |
    Of course your MBTI can change over time. And I'm changing mine to ESFP...!
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  9. #89
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    First, I believe it is role, not strength that determines type. Second, I never stated that opposite functions could be used equally. Perhaps it is true that that is the case, but I am not prepared to make that claim. However, it is clear that even if not equally, an increase in one function does not automatically decrease the use of its opposite, as you claimed. Third, perhaps it is bunk, then what?
    Sorry Costrin, I have to disagree. If it is roles then, how can you determine best fit type? Am I the person that my co-workers see, my family observes or who I am when alone with no need to put on a facade? I choose the latter since clearly the role(s) that I play do not define me and I know when I am playing a role.

    I am not sure what you meant to imply but if you say that with the increase of one function, another function of opposite value (Ti-Fe) does not increase then logically I would infer that regardless of how strong my Ti my Fe doesn't weaken, ergo it can develop equally. Or are you saying that there is a limit to how developed a weaker function can become? Not sure what you are saying at this point. As for your final assertion, then if you claim the whole type system is bunk clearly we are having a moot discussion.

  10. #90
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