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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    My largest apprehension of claiming ISTP status is the perceived lack of intelligence in sensors. Kinda like choosing to be black in the 1950’s, it just ain't fair.
    MY suggestion would be to not care what about what other people think that is the istp way.

  2. #62
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    My largest apprehension of claiming ISTP status is the perceived lack of intelligence in sensors. Kinda like choosing to be black in the 1950’s, it just ain't fair.
    sum ppl will claim ur not intelligtn but dont worry, they r seeing u through a mist, b/c thre head is in clouds and simultaneously in thir own ass. :}
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Just like the N side, the STJs cannibalise the SFs and the STPs (NTJs doing the same to the other side) to become vastly over represented. If you normally distribute the factors, the correlation is about 0.3, I think, which isn't very significant. Course, when you segment the population into a 25/33-75/66 split, you are going to get a wider gap.
    So true.

    Another issue is that in your career, most people these days, even graduates, have to start in very detailed oriented jobs, where not only organization but an eagle eye for small details are essential.

    Therefore while an NTJ may have an advantage for strategic thinking, the STJ will have the advantage in terms of detail which may give them earlier career progression. the NTJ may do better or not, it will depend on whether they get the chance to demonstrate their strategic abilities.

    Us P's on the other hand, need to be lucky enough to find a job where we can use an area of specific brilliance, where flexibility rather than routine are demanded. In the average corporation, these jobs are hard to come by, but they are niche areas. IT, technician, marketing, sales and journalism, spring to mind...

    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    My largest apprehension of claiming ISTP status is the perceived lack of intelligence in sensors. Kinda like choosing to be black in the 1950’s, it just ain't fair.
    LOL who the fuck cares if some pretentious failure on a forum thinks you are intelligent or not?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    So true.

    Another issue is that in your career, most people these days, even graduates, have to start in very detailed oriented jobs, where not only organization but an eagle eye for small details are essential.

    Therefore while an NTJ may have an advantage for strategic thinking, the STJ will have the advantage in terms of detail which may give them earlier career progression. the NTJ may do better or not, it will depend on whether they get the chance to demonstrate their strategic abilities.

    Us P's on the other hand, need to be lucky enough to find a job where we can use an area of specific brilliance, where flexibility rather than routine are demanded. In the average corporation, these jobs are hard to come by, but they are niche areas. IT, technician, marketing, sales and journalism, spring to mind...



    LOL who the fuck cares if some pretentious failure on a forum thinks you are intelligent or not?
    Js come out ahead first and then us ISTPs come flying through because we dont crack under pressure, we know our shit inside and out, and can come up with practical solutions that cut through the crap. We start out the silent type as we learn and analyze, figure out every nook and cranny and then can turn everything upside down and inside out.

    I have always found niche jobs by showing what i can do. When i worked at discount tire i was a part time employee with the same jobs as the full-time employees. When I worked at Texas Instruments i created my own position where i came and went as i pleased. Still working on that niche at my current place of work. I had it and then things got changed and i got brought into a new group, missed the training and thrown into a mess. I am now one of the lead developers and fairly close to becoming a senior consultant.

    Be proud to be ISTP...ignore the crap people throw at you for being S.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #65
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    Actually understanding the fabric of the world?

    INtuitives are inherently better at theorizing, conceptualizing in terms of symmetry and perfect numbers and shoulds, which is great, but it really doesn't have anything to do with what's going on ever. We shy away from messy reality. Sensors are adept at handling it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Actually understanding the fabric of the world?
    Do you mean the fabric of the world as it really is? Hand that to the sensors.

    Do you mean the fabric of worlds that have never been? That is for intuitives.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you mean the fabric of the world as it really is? Hand that to the sensors.

    Do you mean the fabric of worlds that have never been? That is for intuitives.
    The first, of course. Important to keep in mind, though, that if our world did not exist, we would have no opportunity to understand the fabric of worlds that have never been.

  8. #68
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    Wow, it's weird responding to a post about a post you made 5 years ago!

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Another issue is that in your career, most people these days, even graduates, have to start in very detailed oriented jobs, where not only organization but an eagle eye for small details are essential.
    This is generally true. Ultimately any job need to output work, and the junior people get handed the most basic tasks of that work output. It's not always "detailed", but it's not "strategic" either. They aren't the ones farming out the tasks to others; they are the farm!


    Therefore while an NTJ may have an advantage for strategic thinking, the STJ will have the advantage in terms of detail which may give them earlier career progression. the NTJ may do better or not, it will depend on whether they get the chance to demonstrate their strategic abilities.
    I would question whether or not S or Ns are better at detail-oriented or focus dependent tasks. Predominantly the J dimension measure both.


    Us P's on the other hand, need to be lucky enough
    P's do have it rough, if you can say that of any dimension. The rest are a lot more subjective depending on what you want to do.

    LOL who the fuck cares if some pretentious failure on a forum thinks you are intelligent or not?
    Not addressed to me, but worth noting; it matters because it is social feedback. It isn't significantly different than racism or sexism; you can't ignore the way you are treated in a social group.

    I speak as someone stepping from INTP to ISTP. As an established INTP, I had an advantage, but it was still an interesting experiment.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Not addressed to me, but worth noting; it matters because it is social feedback. It isn't significantly different than racism or sexism; you can't ignore the way you are treated in a social group.

    I speak as someone stepping from INTP to ISTP. As an established INTP, I had an advantage, but it was still an interesting experiment.
    I was listening to the radio the other day and a guy complained about a groups name. He simply couldnt get past the name actually give the group a fair chance. Thats not racism, or sexism, its called stereotyping.

    On a side note, despite the fact that I am an S ALOT of people think I am extremely smart and talented. None of them know a thing about MBTI, nor do they realize what S vs N is. My co-worker is an ENTP, is a sun certified Java teacher, knows all about patterns, and stuff, yet I impress him on a daily basis. The framework he is designing has ALOT of things I incorporated into our application as we progress and learn. He is just standardizing everything into a "best of" framework and reorganizing where things are located. Our first framework he designed based on merging together frameworks and utilizing them according to there specs and how things were set out to be. At this time I was in another group...well I had a project only I worked on and then was a team in another group project. By designing and working with the actual application I got rid of what didnt work and incorporated what did work. At first he was fighting what I did because I wasnt using the "framework" as it was intended to be used. I ditched 90% of the JSF navigation. Basically stripping it down to the most basic pieces because the rest wasnt easy to work with in our application as a developer. Created my own bread crumb mechanism, created my own handling of threads utilizing a combination of Java executors, Spring, and the command pattern. It was interesting because we have 3 layers and I strewn the Command pattern across all 3 layers and other developers kept complaining because I was mixing up things. No I kept business logic in the business layer, they were just wrapped by the command pattern, the web service interaction was in the integration layer and wrapped by command patterns. What did this buy me? The ability to run extremely complicated series-parallel combinations with ease. One command would call 2 other commands in parallel which combined that data while another command called 3 other things in parallel to merge the data and those 2 commands were run in parallel and the data was merged. And its so easy to understand because each command does a unit of work and returns something. So if I need a list of a certain object I grab that command, it doesnt matter whether that command runs things in parallel or series, or even any other setup within it. It returns this piece which I need to merge with this other piece. I also have it all run by an executor factory which has 4 different options that can switch between using AJAX, Polling Mechanism, Fire and forget, or a standard inline executor. None of the commands are aware of which executor I grab and whther the web page will poll for updates, get pushed out automatically using comet style technology or will return with all the data on the initial display.

    I on the other hand dropped out of the only java class I have taken. It was a joke and nothing played nicely so I stopped going. I instead learned hands on by using google and reverse engineering open source software. I didnt see patterns, I saw things people used and what it accomplished. I analyzed logs and saw things that were slow and I pieced together code that at the end of the day mimicked the patterns in "programming" books. All of this comes natural to me. Plus I get the hands on experience they dont teach in school. My favorite saying is...yeah, thats how it "should" respond. People will say "patterns" are best of, yet people will overkill with them and use every pattern in the book and end up with the slowest most complicated code ever because if you look at the "design" its awesome...yeah, but how does it actually work. Difference between coding to theory and coding in real life. The most important thing I have learned while coding is to code for "openness" and I dont mean this in the same way that say an INTx does. I code by actually seeing the big picture and always code so things can be upgraded, incorporated, and refactored easily. I wont over use an interface pattern because an interface is easy to pull out, I will pull it out when needed. Same with abstract classes, I will pull it out when needed.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #70
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    Yeah, it's just an online prejudice, and I think it's pretty easy to ignore.

    Regardin P-ness though, people may not know mbti, but J values are generally favored. Luckily I appear to have found an area where P's can excel so for now I am optimistic.

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