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  1. #21
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Is this dude important or something and why should I believe him? Where did he get that info from? Using somebody's blog as a reference for the superiority of intuitive intelligence is highly suspect. And it's really convenient that he's an INTJ, one of the "smart" people. Boo!!
    I was only getting the link for Mac (which is why I gave the research along with it)

  2. #22
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I am curious where Keirsey's 4 types of intelligence fit into this. He proposes that each temperament expresses its own unique form of intelligence (SJ = Logistical, SP = Tactical, NT = Strategic, NF = Diplomatic).

  3. #23
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I was only getting the link for Mac (which is why I gave the research along with it)
    I didn't think you agreed. I was just referring to the link.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I was only getting the link for Mac (which is why I gave the research along with it)
    Thanks, there is also this:

    SENG: Articles & Resources - Gifted kids at risk: Who's listening?

  5. #25
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    As for me personally, I have a problem with Keiresey's description of temperament in general, and I have yet to meet a SP who agrees with the hedonistic and tool usage viewpoint provided by Keirsey. Also, as referenced above, the Improviser's intellect is Tactical which means, per Berens, that:
    Those expressing Improviser tend to be gifted at employing the available means to accomplish an end. Their creativity is revealed by the variety of solutions they come up with. They are talented at using tools, whether the tool be language, theories, a paint brush, or a computer. Such people tune into immediate sensory information and vary their actions according to the needs of the moment.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The reason why this doesn't manifest itself universally is because there is a huge overlap despite the binomial distribution of S/N, and simply because Ss don't do any worse in the workplace, statistically speaking. Just like the N side, the STJs cannibalise the SFs and the STPs (NTJs doing the same to the other side) to become vastly over represented. If you normally distribute the factors, the correlation is about 0.3, I think, which isn't very significant. Course, when you segment the population into a 25/33-75/66 split, you are going to get a wider gap.

    What is normally misunderstood is that while Ns are unique good at taking IQ tests, this is because all of the gF loaded tests require abstract thinking. By definition, N's will be better at it. What it doesn't note is that there are very few to no success factors involved. Not money, not happiness... There is a correlation between IQ and wealth and a few others, but for the most part, very little.
    Recent reviews in the litterature conclude that the best predictor of job performance is IQ out of all possible known information...

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Recent reviews in the litterature conclude that the best predictor of job performance is IQ out of all possible known information...
    It is, however, erratic depending on the type of job. We've had this discussion before, however, so I don't see any need to rehash it. I think we can both agree that certain personality factors and IQ influence and are predictive of job performance, even if we disagree on the relative influence of both.

    I am, however, more convinced along the lines of IQ being more predictive overall, but I'm not so sure that it is as predictive once you are within a job category range... ie: clerical staff at the 90-110 puts limits on the normal IQ group, at which point I think personality factors play a larger role... in practise, smaller IQ ranges make personality factors somewhat more relevent. Taking the entire spread of IQs, it is far more likely for someone at the 110 range to rise above a clerical position (ie: into manager positions at the 110-120 range)... for example, most managers have a degree of some kind, and most people with degress have IQs above 110/120 - that decreases the pool significantly. I think there is a reason why CEOs have both high IQs and test far more disagreeable and such - certain jobs need certain attributes and depending on the availability of the job, you squeeze out factors one at a time until the people match demand.

    Of course, this all relates to how relevent the connection between N and IQ is - there is a reason why, regardless of the link, it isn't the N that dominates the higher end jobs. The correlation may seem strong, but there are offsetting factors that make "N" testers no more desirable.

  8. #28
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Since when does IQ denote success in any endeavor? It doesn't. Motivation does. That's about determination more than anything.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  9. #29
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    ^I think there is something amiss in the MBTI descriptions if it has pattern recognition solely in the court of the iNtuitive. If it actually does, then it hasn't delineated correctly between concrete and abstract thinking, perceiving, and intelligence. I've commented that Sensors can be very "intuitive" about concrete systems while iNtuitives are "intuitive" about abstract systems - and that includes pattern recognition in both instances.

    One has to comprehend all the elements in a system before one can identify patterns and approach it intuitively. A person cannot succeed at any type of artistic design (fashion, interior, commercial, etc.) without the ability to see patterns and work at least somewhat intuitively in those systems. I personally would not be intuitive as a fireman or race-car driver because I can't process all the relevant concrete details in those systems, but people who take in all sensory details immediately with the ability to respond instantly are in fact processing concrete information in a gut response, intuitive manner. Even surgeons, engineers, and many aspects of science are working in concrete systems, and I suspect many in the medical field are Sensors even if they test as iNtuitives - or at least they are predominately concrete systems thinkers. This doesn't even address the entire range of classical musicians - many, many, many of whom use a great deal of Si to recreate precise, nuanced, detailed patterns in music.

    In our society I suspect most would consider a surgeon or concert pianist quite brilliant, and those skills do not require abstract reasoning to perform - at least not the kind of abstract thinking associated with the iNtuitive since obviously every human being uses their senses and abstract reasoning to process language, etc. A person who thinks abstractly can certainly approach those tasks using that form of intelligence, but it is not core to what is required.

    As far as the whole IQ issue, volumes could be written about the limitations, bias, and issues of that form of testing.
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Since when does IQ denote success in any endeavor? It doesn't. Motivation does. That's about determination more than anything.
    Wow, you bumped an old thread, ptgatsby clocked out ages ago. And yeah, you're right.

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