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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ISTPs are really attractive to me on the surface (yet another one has caught my eye recently), but then I get to know more about them & they seem like robots to me.
    Of course I'll seem like a robot to you - we're quite different. I appreciate our differences though, it's refreshing, and it's what makes you and I unique.

    Explain to me what seems so robotish? I already know, but I want to hear your perception, in your words


    I've tried dating some and the whole relationship being on their terms and extreme need for independence/alone time seems so selfish and detached. I can't imagine putting a hobby over other human beings either. Thinking about ISTPs in those terms makes me feel sad, since again, I tend to like the idea of them when I meet them.
    You've dated some immature ISTPs. Not much else to it.

    My whole life, my relationships with other people, friends, family, whatever, have always had to be on my terms, and if you didn't like it I wouldn't bother, because I always did whatever I wanted to do. The older I get, the more I realize how childish and selfish that is/was, and that you can't have fair and fulfilling relationships if you don't give back at least some of what you take. It provides deeper relationships with people which feels good and makes me feel not so alone, as I don't always want to feel alone.


    It's funny, because I think they can be drawn to me since I also need a lot of alone time to daydream and whatnot, but then they cannot understand how I seemingly do "nothing" with that time. And while on the surface we may have similar interests, the reasons seem to be opposite. I also don't like what feels like a "game" to me in a relationship, and so the whole "don't call me, I'll call you" vibe they give is a big turn-off. I need someone who is more emotionally available and sensitive to my needs.
    I'm drawn to people who appreciate their alone time. I can also relax, do "nothing", and daydream, but just not in the same sense that you do.

    I don't get the perception that you do "nothing" with your do-nothing-time. You're dreaming, in your head, thinking about anything and everything. Tell me more about what you do in your do-nothing-time. I want to know and understand.

    In fact, I think we are quite a bit more similar than you may realize. When I am in my zone and doing, it's the same as your do-nothing-time, in the sense that nothing productive is getting done, like work or chores.

    I tune out the "world" and my stresses of life, and tune in to only my immediate environment and my interaction with it. I interact with it through my senses, and during that time nothing else in the world matters. I need this time, like I need the air I breathe, in order to feel whole, to feel healthy mentally and physically, to feel happy. I need to feel through my senses, to feel the sun, wind, and water on my skin, in order to feel alive.

    I can tell when I don't get enough physical stimulation because my body begins to physically crave it, and I will do whatever I have to do to get it. If that means running away from my situation until I collapse from exhaustion, it will be so.


    I also notice ISTPs seem to value friendships more than romantic relationships.... I suppose friendships are easier for robots
    Friendships are easier. Romances and the dating game seems like so much work, and it never appealed to me as a way of finding a partner. In a partner, I want a best friend first.

    The only difference I see between my friends and romances are that I just don't have sex with my friends, and that I'm not as emotionally close with them as I would like to be with a partner. I still consider them intimate relationships because I've never seen the value in superficiality and having a lot of acquaintances that I call "friends".

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post
    You are right - on the few occasions when I have wanted to get my point across I have used this technique and it works pretty well (it eliminates the "emotion" and gives him something he can appreciate). Not using emotion when I have to spell it out to him is hard as it's what I use a lot... I have let him have his way a lot and this should allow me enough leverage to put my point across... He does need to learn his own way, I have seen what happens when he is "forced" and it isn't good...


    Any advice is greatfully received, thanks for replying!
    It works, to the extent it works on a child or a pet. Yes, I'm bringing that up again! My point being that it only works in a single instance, but values aren't learned so it's not applied universally to every situation.

    It's never going to be fully effective in getting him to see, understand, and appreciate how you perceive things all the time.

    This is what Fe is all about, baby. I may not have a lot of strong feelings of my own like people with a feeling preference, but as I've grown I've seen the value in having the ability to recognize, connect and respond to other people's feelings, and treat them as important as they were my own. They may seem irrational to me, but relationships are not about my own rationalization of other people's feelings, because that's selfish and it will never work.

    Janey, the only advice I can give is that you don't sacrifice who you are by letting him have his way all the time because he'll never learn that way. I understand you may be having fun at the moment, but down the road when he hurts you and acts cold like he doesn't care, you'll realize his immaturity. At some point, you'll have to make a stand for yourself. He'll either appreciate you for it, and learn about you and emotion the hard way, or he'll reject change and go about being selfish.

    Either way, you'll know if he really cares. He may be immature, and ignorant of feelings, but he needs to prove that he's receptive to you and willing to understand perceptions other than his own. If he doesn't, then he doesn't deserve being in a relationship.

    He has done this (usually for the stuff that really hasn't bothered me though. For the really big stuff he can't quite see my issue - like trying to change our relationship into "non-exclusive" - but only for him, I need to remain faithful - he wasn't sure why I got upset on this )
    Please tell me he wasn't being serious...




    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck Janey

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    It works, to the extent it works on a child or a pet. Yes, I'm bringing that up again! My point being that it only works in a single instance, but values aren't learned so it's not applied universally to every situation.

    It's never going to be fully effective in getting him to see, understand, and appreciate how you perceive things all the time.
    The pet/child thing fits so well - I don't have any and don't want any, but at times it does feel like this - I'm not keen on that dynamic at all!

    I think you're right - it works as well as a "telling off" does - but it doesn't really reach beneath the surface and we have to face it all over again. A very tiring thing to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    This is what Fe is all about, baby. I may not have a lot of strong feelings of my own like people with a feeling preference, but as I've grown I've seen the value in having the ability to recognize, connect and respond to other people's feelings, and treat them as important as they were my own. They may seem irrational to me, but relationships are not about my own rationalization of other people's feelings, because that's selfish and it will never work.
    I think because he doesn't really like people, except the very few (and I am talking you could count them all on one hand) people he has chosen to spend time with - most of them being "guys" he hasn't really been exposed to emotions enough... I think they fascinate him - it's more a "prod, prod" and see what happens thing than any real level of empathy... Because he perceives me as "strong" I find it difficult to show that side of me and just completely close down and not communicate - because it's easier?!? He has hurt my feelings and seen me cry, it was his fault for pushing and I hated him for it....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Janey, the only advice I can give is that you don't sacrifice who you are by letting him have his way all the time because he'll never learn that way. I understand you may be having fun at the moment, but down the road when he hurts you and acts cold like he doesn't care, you'll realize his immaturity. At some point, you'll have to make a stand for yourself. He'll either appreciate you for it, and learn about you and emotion the hard way, or he'll reject change and go about being selfish.
    Hmmmm - this has happened to some extent - I have been emmersed into his life - meeting all his friends, family and spending time in his "spaces" - when I have mentioned this he was "well there doesn't appear to be much in your space, not really" - It would be nice if he could come into my world, just a little - I am so scared of frightening him off I have let it slide too long... I think it's a breaker... I am not asking for the world, just for him to come to a BBQ with me (and his friend) where there will be 2 other people there - I'm sorry, if that's too heavy duty for him I really do worry about things (he has social anxiety, so it can be tough)...

    I need a talk with him over this - a part of me would love to be able to get away with his level of selfishness - I mean he does, all the damned time - everyone seems to make allowances and helps him....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Either way, you'll know if he really cares. He may be immature, and ignorant of feelings, but he needs to prove that he's receptive to you and willing to understand perceptions other than his own. If he doesn't, then he doesn't deserve being in a relationship.
    He says the words - and does seem to care at times, but it's like a fawcett - he turns it on and off when he pleases (oh to be able to do that - how much pain I'd avoid!)

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Please tell me he wasn't being serious...

    Thing is - he sort of was and wasn't - he was pushing me as far as he could (this and other stuff he said were what made me cry). I never really wanted a relationship when I met him, I had split from a 5 year relationship and was having fun meeting people - he kind of stood out from the crowd... He was the one who used boyfriend/girlfriend first, the "L" word, said he wanted exclusivity from the start... Those things terrified me, but because I cared about him I did get carried away rather fast on the tidal wave of it all... He has backtracked as the intensity has waned - in fact he got more "excited" when I tried to break up with him - weird....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck Janey
    Thanks again for your words - it's nice to get it from that side of the fence - a lot of the time my mind and emotions get the better of me and I can't see it...
    Last edited by janey_girl; 03-25-2009 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Quoting thing wasn't right

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post
    I think because he doesn't really like people, except the very few (and I am talking you could count them all on one hand) people he has chosen to spend time with - most of them being "guys" he hasn't really been exposed to emotions enough... I think they fascinate him - it's more a "prod, prod" and see what happens thing than any real level of empathy... Because he perceives me as "strong" I find it difficult to show that side of me and just completely close down and not communicate - because it's easier?!? He has hurt my feelings and seen me cry, it was his fault for pushing and I hated him for it....
    I can imagine it's something you have to do to protect yourself, but it's not something you should have to do in a fair relationship. Happy Puppy has shared her personal experience about her relationship with an ISTP - she said the same thing about turning herself off. And it seems to have left her scarred and given her a permanent negative impression of all ISTPs that I resent in a way, but not really since that's her problem, not mine.

    Like I said, please don't lose who you are just to stay in a relationship with someone. Realize he wouldn't do it for you if the tables were turned.

    I hope you communicated to him why you were upset. If you just cried and seemed to drop it, then nothing was resolved, and he still doesn't understand your point of view. Make your feelings known, even if he doesn't "get" it.

    Hmmmm - this has happened to some extent - I have been emmersed into his life - meeting all his friends, family and spending time in his "spaces" - when I have mentioned this he was "well there doesn't appear to be much in your space, not really" - It would be nice if he could come into my world, just a little - I am so scared of frightening him off I have let it slide too long... I think it's a breaker... I am not asking for the world, just for him to come to a BBQ with me (and his friend) where there will be 2 other people there - I'm sorry, if that's too heavy duty for him I really do worry about things (he has social anxiety, so it can be tough)...
    Social anxiety can only be overcome by, guess what, taking yourself out of your comfort zone. It shouldn't be too difficult since he'll have you by his side. Just let him know why it's important to you.




    He says the words - and does seem to care at times, but it's like a fawcett - he turns it on and off when he pleases (oh to be able to do that - how much pain I'd avoid!)
    It's funny you say that. I've referred to my Fe as an on/off switch here before. It takes a lot of energy to access that part of myself, and sometimes I feel like I just don't have it to spare on other people, as selfish as that sounds. But then again we have to take care of the people we love.

    Thing is - he sort of was and wasn't - he was pushing me as far as he could (this and other stuff he said were what made me cry). I never really wanted a relationship when I met him, I had split from a 5 year relationship and was having fun meeting people - he kind of stood out from the crowd... He was the one who used boyfriend/girlfriend first, the "L" word, said he wanted exclusivity from the start... Those things terrified me, but because I cared about him I did get carried away rather fast on the tidal wave of it all... He has backtracked as the intensity has waned - in fact he got more "excited" when I tried to break up with him - weird....
    I think he's testing you. He's looking to understand you and find your limits. What does it take to break this thing, and after I do that, what will it take to fix it?

    The "excitedness" of you trying break up with him was another example. "Uh-oh - this thing is about to break and blow up in my face. This is something I've never experienced before. Is it going to be over after this? Will I be able to fix this and win her back?"

    John Mayer has a song that I think relates to this situation and it goes:

    I will beg my way into your garden
    Then I'll break my way out when it rains
    Just to get back to the place where I started
    So I can want you back all over again
    I don't really understand
    He's trying to figure out how much you really care, and at the same time how much he really cares. As screwed up as that sounds, it's just the way I work too, and I'm not sure why.

    For me, I have to learn the hardest way sometimes. It's almost like I can never truly understand how much I value something, until I've lost it. This has happened with many things in my life - my deceased father, my health...many things.

    Thanks again for your words - it's nice to get it from that side of the fence - a lot of the time my mind and emotions get the better of me and I can't see it...
    When things start to get hot, just take a second to step back, breathe, and stay calm. Don't turn your feelings off and shut down, look to your feelings to guide you through your situations and keep you strong according to who you are.

    Your relationship seems really one-sided at this time. As in you are much more mature than him, but I think I can see that he realizes the value in having you around and likely views you as an opportunity for personal growth. With communication, patience, and love, of course, I'm sure you guys can make it work if it's something both of you want.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I can imagine it's something you have to do to protect yourself, but it's not something you should have to do in a fair relationship. Happy Puppy has shared her personal experience about her relationship with an ISTP - she said the same thing about turning herself off. And it seems to have left her scarred and given her a permanent negative impression of all ISTPs that I resent in a way, but not really since that's her problem, not mine.
    Turning myself off makes it worse than landing him with my emotions, when I did that the other week he said "this isn't "us" when you're like this" - Although a lot say ISTPs are robots I do disagree, their perspective is just 180 degrees from my own - he says things aloud I'd never dream of being able to say, even though I think them. I like that....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Like I said, please don't lose who you are just to stay in a relationship with someone. Realize he wouldn't do it for you if the tables were turned.
    Over the last week or so I have been trying to get "me" back and after Sunday where it was a case of familiarity breeding contempt - we've been relying on each other too heavily and it's not a fun place to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I hope you communicated to him why you were upset. If you just cried and seemed to drop it, then nothing was resolved, and he still doesn't understand your point of view. Make your feelings known, even if he doesn't "get" it.
    I told him how he upset me - we communicated via e-mail, it was easier to get our points across - he got it in a vague sort of way but not true empathy.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Social anxiety can only be overcome by, guess what, taking yourself out of your comfort zone. It shouldn't be too difficult since he'll have you by his side. Just let him know why it's important to you.
    I think the boredom has proved he needs to be taken out of his comfort zone - He seems to have this weird idea that if I introduce him to any of my friends that he will fancy them and go off with them - he doesn't even like the idea of his friend meeting them because he wants them and if he can't (and he's never met them!) then he doesn't want his friend (who he would die for) to have them either... I can't worry about him straying, the tighter a leash I keep on him, the more I know he will want it (if he can have it, he doesn't want it!). We need to meet new friends - at the moment his world is me, a female friend at uni and his best mate - he avoids his mum who he lives with (moved back home when he started Uni) and rarely sees his dad or his sister. His world is too small, especially for an ISTP....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    It's funny you say that. I've referred to my Fe as an on/off switch here before. It takes a lot of energy to access that part of myself, and sometimes I feel like I just don't have it to spare on other people, as selfish as that sounds. But then again we have to take care of the people we love.
    I think this is it - he changes from loving me, caring about me to an indifference almost when I'm not around... At the moment I veer between loving him to bits and being as mad as hell at him (strangely mostly when I don't see him!)

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I think he's testing you. He's looking to understand you and find your limits. What does it take to break this thing, and after I do that, what will it take to fix it?
    I kind of figured that - I see the way he is with machinery and it was almost the identical thing he was doing - not pleasant nonetheless!

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    The "excitedness" of you trying break up with him was another example. "Uh-oh - this thing is about to break and blow up in my face. This is something I've never experienced before. Is it going to be over after this? Will I be able to fix this and win her back?"
    LOL!


    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    He's trying to figure out how much you really care, and at the same time how much he really cares. As screwed up as that sounds, it's just the way I work too, and I'm not sure why.
    I guess.... I think I have been too "available" to him recently, it's been a case that he texts and a few hours later I'm there - you guys like a bit of a challenge - think a bit of "extra space" could come in useful!

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    For me, I have to learn the hardest way sometimes. It's almost like I can never truly understand how much I value something, until I've lost it. This has happened with many things in my life - my deceased father, my health...many things.
    I think that's it - although after we split the first time he did say "I won't come chasing after you - don't expect that" I do think he would miss me in his own way... You guys are pretty forgiving when us emotional lot throw a bit of a "wobbly" though and making up was cool...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    When things start to get hot, just take a second to step back, breathe, and stay calm. Don't turn your feelings off and shut down, look to your feelings to guide you through your situations and keep you strong according to who you are.
    Hmmm - good advice.... I'll try this as I think next time I see him we're going to need it - it's at that stage at the moment!

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Your relationship seems really one-sided at this time. As in you are much more mature than him, but I think I can see that he realizes the value in having you around and likely views you as an opportunity for personal growth. With communication, patience, and love, of course, I'm sure you guys can make it work if it's something both of you want.
    It is - and I'm more to blame for allowing it for so long - I've been treating him like a child rather than the adult he is - I want a mature relationship so why should I have it with a child?

    Thanks for your insight - you seem a very well-adjusted ISTP (if that's not too much of an insult ) - he has all that potential and it's time he realised it!

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Of course I'll seem like a robot to you - we're quite different. I appreciate our differences though, it's refreshing, and it's what makes you and I unique.

    Explain to me what seems so robotish? I already know, but I want to hear your perception, in your words

    You've dated some immature ISTPs. Not much else to it.

    My whole life, my relationships with other people, friends, family, whatever, have always had to be on my terms, and if you didn't like it I wouldn't bother, because I always did whatever I wanted to do. The older I get, the more I realize how childish and selfish that is/was, and that you can't have fair and fulfilling relationships if you don't give back at least some of what you take. It provides deeper relationships with people which feels good and makes me feel not so alone, as I don't always want to feel alone.

    I'm drawn to people who appreciate their alone time. I can also relax, do "nothing", and daydream, but just not in the same sense that you do.

    I don't get the perception that you do "nothing" with your do-nothing-time. You're dreaming, in your head, thinking about anything and everything. Tell me more about what you do in your do-nothing-time. I want to know and understand.

    In fact, I think we are quite a bit more similar than you may realize. When I am in my zone and doing, it's the same as your do-nothing-time, in the sense that nothing productive is getting done, like work or chores.

    I tune out the "world" and my stresses of life, and tune in to only my immediate environment and my interaction with it. I interact with it through my senses, and during that time nothing else in the world matters. I need this time, like I need the air I breathe, in order to feel whole, to feel healthy mentally and physically, to feel happy. I need to feel through my senses, to feel the sun, wind, and water on my skin, in order to feel alive.

    I can tell when I don't get enough physical stimulation because my body begins to physically crave it, and I will do whatever I have to do to get it. If that means running away from my situation until I collapse from exhaustion, it will be so.

    Friendships are easier. Romances and the dating game seems like so much work, and it never appealed to me as a way of finding a partner. In a partner, I want a best friend first.

    The only difference I see between my friends and romances are that I just don't have sex with my friends, and that I'm not as emotionally close with them as I would like to be with a partner. I still consider them intimate relationships because I've never seen the value in superficiality and having a lot of acquaintances that I call "friends".

    I agree the ISTPs I have dealt with are immature. I'm not dealing with teenagers here either, but adult men in their 30s....
    Anyway, your interest in understanding theoretical things like this probably means you're very well-rounded though.

    As for the robot impression, it's from the calculated movements, the very precise way of speaking (not to be confused with some N type's articulation of ideas), the way all interests seem to be physical, the apparent lack of any emotion. The face, the eyes and the voice often don't show much beyond "pleasant". I haven't dated / known any ISTP long enough to see real anger even, just the irritation when they feel their boundaries are invaded.

    I don't mean it in an insulting way, but this is coming from someone who lives largely in their head and has a very expressive face and is floating through life in a cloud and is often out of touch with the environment around me, but on a rollercoaster of emotions. My daydreams are essentially intense movies in my head, and they interrupt my life at their will. I can make an entire story around someone I just met or something I see that intrigues me. Also, my creativity is conceptual, so I ponder an idea for a long time before I take action in my artistic pursuits.

    So from my perspective, it seems like ISTPs are so physical, even their thinking can seem like a computer processing data. In conversation, the most fanciful they get is describing something they saw. Like describing scenery on a vacation or something. They do it in very vivid terms, and that's charming to me.

    I can appreciate the differences too... I mentioned in another thread that ISTPs can seem very sexy and romantic to me with the way they live in the moment and are so hands-on and adventurous. They seem "sensual". I admire it, because I have a lot of difficulty being that way. But it makes me sad, because I also think I could never connect with them on a deeper level. I've had a sort of moth to flame fascination with a few.

    For example....I like art & music a lot. I nearly live for it. The ISTPs I have known like it to, but it's more of a sensory thing. They like hands-on art and live music they can feel physically. For me, music and art is an emotional experience in itself. So we'll both be excited about the same things, but then I feel let down when their feelings seem comparatively shallow to mine. That probably sounds judgmental, but as an INFP, my values are HUGE, and of course I value FEELINGS a lot.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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    Just to throw this out there, here are some of the recommended matches for ISTP- ESFJ, INFJ. If you get someone too similar to you you won't grow as much as a person in the relationship. However happiness prevails over all in a relationship, so do whatever.

    I personally like ISTPs a good bit, I'm currently crushing on one. She's really nice and really cool. Too bad she has a boyfriend.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post
    Turning myself off makes it worse than landing him with my emotions, when I did that the other week he said "this isn't "us" when you're like this" - Although a lot say ISTPs are robots I do disagree, their perspective is just 180 degrees from my own - he says things aloud I'd never dream of being able to say, even though I think them. I like that....



    Over the last week or so I have been trying to get "me" back and after Sunday where it was a case of familiarity breeding contempt - we've been relying on each other too heavily and it's not a fun place to be...


    I told him how he upset me - we communicated via e-mail, it was easier to get our points across - he got it in a vague sort of way but not true empathy.


    I think the boredom has proved he needs to be taken out of his comfort zone - He seems to have this weird idea that if I introduce him to any of my friends that he will fancy them and go off with them - he doesn't even like the idea of his friend meeting them because he wants them and if he can't (and he's never met them!) then he doesn't want his friend (who he would die for) to have them either... I can't worry about him straying, the tighter a leash I keep on him, the more I know he will want it (if he can have it, he doesn't want it!). We need to meet new friends - at the moment his world is me, a female friend at uni and his best mate - he avoids his mum who he lives with (moved back home when he started Uni) and rarely sees his dad or his sister. His world is too small, especially for an ISTP....
    It may seem small to you in the sense that we don't have a lot of interaction with people, but that's what comes natural for us. Our world is huge when it comes to things we can interact with, as people are not our world. But I see your point in wanting to do so, because it is your world.

    I think this is it - he changes from loving me, caring about me to an indifference almost when I'm not around... At the moment I veer between loving him to bits and being as mad as hell at him (strangely mostly when I don't see him!)
    Hmm - not quite sure what this could be but I'll take a shot.

    When you're around, he experiences intense emotions, but loving you is easy because you're there and he can release these emotions by showing affection. When you're not there, experiencing these emotions can seem almost too difficult to bear, since he has no outlet of release. Rather than just letting them exist and overwhelm his head, he has to turn them off, in a sense, in order to be able to go about his day. This could be where the perceived "indifference" is coming from.

    At least, this is how it would be with me. I'd have a problem showing indifference towards you, even if you weren't around, as a result of that, because I think it would be sending you the wrong signals.

    I kind of figured that - I see the way he is with machinery and it was almost the identical thing he was doing - not pleasant nonetheless!


    Next time he does it, make it understood you don't appreciate being played with like one of his toys.

    LOL!


    I guess.... I think I have been too "available" to him recently, it's been a case that he texts and a few hours later I'm there - you guys like a bit of a challenge - think a bit of "extra space" could come in useful!
    Yea, you can't let him treat you like a booty call. He needs to have the utmost respect for you, but like any man, he won't if you come running everytime he calls. I'm sure you know this though.

    I think that's it - although after we split the first time he did say "I won't come chasing after you - don't expect that" I do think he would miss me in his own way... You guys are pretty forgiving when us emotional lot throw a bit of a "wobbly" though and making up was cool...

    Hmmm - good advice.... I'll try this as I think next time I see him we're going to need it - it's at that stage at the moment!

    It is - and I'm more to blame for allowing it for so long - I've been treating him like a child rather than the adult he is - I want a mature relationship so why should I have it with a child?
    I just see it as the way all relationships develop and evolve. You figure out what works and what doesn't, and proceed from there.

    Thanks for your insight - you seem a very well-adjusted ISTP (if that's not too much of an insult ) - he has all that potential and it's time he realised it!
    I appreciate the kind words. I see a lot of myself in him, for obvious reasons. Trying to understand him, helps me to understand myself and realize my own flaws, and I know I am quite flawed. What I say, and what I actually do are, unfortunately, sometimes entirely different, but it shouldn't be that way so I'm working on it - that's why I'm here!

    I really appreciate your openness and willingness to share. It's honestly helped me to learn a lot about myself.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I agree the ISTPs I have dealt with are immature. I'm not dealing with teenagers here either, but adult men in their 30s....
    Anyway, your interest in understanding theoretical things like this probably means you're very well-rounded though.
    The older I get, the more I realize maturity has very little to do with physical age, but rather more about life experiences.

    I'm only interested in the theory of psychology because I see a practical use. A tool for understanding myself and other people in almost an analytical way, which makes it more comfortable for me.

    As for the robot impression, it's from the calculated movements, the very precise way of speaking (not to be confused with some N type's articulation of ideas), the way all interests seem to be physical, the apparent lack of any emotion. The face, the eyes and the voice often don't show much beyond "pleasant". I haven't dated / known any ISTP long enough to see real anger even, just the irritation when they feel their boundaries are invaded.
    I didn't think it would come out quite like that, but that's why I wanted to hear you say it

    Apparent lack of changing emotion is just exactly that. Personally, I find comfort in my emotional calmness, and I think a lot of other people around me do as well.

    However, that does not mean I'm incapable of experiencing them. When I'm doing things I really enjoy, or with people I really love, my emotions are incredibly intense, but I can't describe them with any words other than happiness. I can't communicate them like I can my sensory perceptions, because I'm just not as in touch with them as you are.

    I think my emotions are best expressed through my eyes, face, and body language so I love connecting with people in this way. But you won't see it unless we're close and I trust you. Otherwise, you'll only see the robot.

    I don't mean it in an insulting way, but this is coming from someone who lives largely in their head and has a very expressive face and is floating through life in a cloud and is often out of touch with the environment around me, but on a rollercoaster of emotions. My daydreams are essentially intense movies in my head, and they interrupt my life at their will. I can make an entire story around someone I just met or something I see that intrigues me. Also, my creativity is conceptual, so I ponder an idea for a long time before I take action in my artistic pursuits.
    I would look at you as just like you described, someone who was stuck in a waking dream. But at the same time I would be fascinated by it because it is so foreign to me. I'd want to know what you were dreaming about. I'd be interested to hear the stories that you make up in your mind. I'd be envious because, while I feel this creativeness in the deepest parts of myself, I've never been able to get in touch with that part of me in a way I can express. And as much as I love dreaming, it's difficult for me to get into that mindset. Honestly, I can't even remember my dreams I've just had when I wake up every morning - how is that for sad?

    So from my perspective, it seems like ISTPs are so physical, even their thinking can seem like a computer processing data. In conversation, the most fanciful they get is describing something they saw. Like describing scenery on a vacation or something. They do it in very vivid terms, and that's charming to me.
    I do think like a computer, but it's the way I am and it never gets boring to me. I take in sensory information, and process it by thinking about it and interpreting it. I enjoy thinking in a logical way, but it's not always like that. It's taking in information and processing it, often without even "thinking" about it. What does this mean, how does this work, ooh look at the shapes and colors in that pretty cloud.


    I can appreciate the differences too... I mentioned in another thread that ISTPs can seem very sexy and romantic to me with the way they live in the moment and are so hands-on and adventurous. They seem "sensual". I admire it, because I have a lot of difficulty being that way. But it makes me sad, because I also think I could never connect with them on a deeper level. I've had a sort of moth to flame fascination with a few.
    Connection just requires effort and active listening. We don't think that way naturally, but that doesn't mean we can't understand perceptions that are foreign to us. On the contrary, it's refreshing to hear that not everyone views the world in the same way, or thinks about the same things. It expands our minds and views of reality.

    You can connect with someone vastly different than you by just taking the time to share your stories and perceptions, being open-minded, and having a desire to understand something other than yourself.

    You can participate in my adventures, and I can listen to and interact with your dreams

    My adventures are my dreams, just acted out in real time, and real to me since I can feel, see, hear, taste and smell the environment of my dream.


    For example....I like art & music a lot. I nearly live for it. The ISTPs I have known like it to, but it's more of a sensory thing. They like hands-on art and live music they can feel physically. For me, music and art is an emotional experience in itself. So we'll both be excited about the same things, but then I feel let down when their feelings seem comparatively shallow to mine. That probably sounds judgmental, but as an INFP, my values are HUGE, and of course I value FEELINGS a lot.
    I would say I'm the same way, but different at the same time. The art I live for is the art I feel in my precise physical movement, the art I see in the almost unbearable beauty of nature and the randomness of life, the sunset skies I see every evening where the rainbow colored clouds look like the strokes of a paintbrush. This is the "art" I live for - the art in my sensory experience of my reality. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate all other forms of art.

    As for music, it's a huge part of my life as I would say it as one of the best ways I feel my emotions. I feel the artists' emotions through the lyrics, tone of their voice, and the sounds of instruments. I may have difficulty telling you how I'm feeling, but I can play you a song that says it better than my own words ever could.

    We are exactly the same in our passions for life, but completely opposite in the way we think and perceive them. Like you said, your life is an emotional rollercoaster, and mine is a long, slow, gently rolling country road.

    And all that said, I'm disappointed you perceive me as being so shallow, but the most important point to get across is that your perception is only that due to ignorance. And I will be the first to admit I am ignorant myself - I know nothing about the NF perception of reality, but I want to understand.

    So thank you for sharing

  10. #170
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    People, please. Everyone knows ISTPs don't need relationships. They need oiling.

    OILING! And humidity control! Rust is such a plague!
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