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  1. #141
    Member janey_girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Wow, that sounds incredibly selfish when you put it that way, but ultimately I can't deny that it's true. Doing the things I love will always come first...hmm...maybe that's why I've not really had a serious relationship yet?
    I don't really see it as selfish that his hobbies are important to him - well most of the time anyway.... It is part of who he is and I need to accept him "hobbies and all"... I don't see that I come second, but I know I'll never be out there ahead of his hobbies, it's either accept or move on...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I love my bicycle. I frequently fantasize about her beautiful curves and my next opportunity to get her between my hips and pump away.

    Sometimes I think I would love for my partner to be into cycling, but then at the same time I don't. It's one of the things I do to get away from everything and everyone else in the world, and if I couldn't use it as an escape there could potentially be some issues.
    He has used his motorcycle as an "escape" from being in his box - I understand it, although the first time he did this I can't deny I wasn't hurt. It is always going to be his thing so he always has somewhere to go, understanding this made it easier for me to understand a bit more about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Mostly, I think it's just him wanting to show you what he loves and for you to experience it the way he does. You don't have to love it, but he wants to show you his world. I'd say it's his way of opening up and letting you in.
    I feel very privelidged that he wants to show and share this part of his world with me - to try and make me understand why he has a love for it, a love I'd never be able to compete with. I do feel let in and it means more to me than shallow romantic gestures which he never indulges in...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    And who knows...motorcycling may not be your thing. Ultimately, what I think is important, for me at least, is that there is some kind of activity that both my partner and I enjoy doing together.
    It might not be my thing, you're right... We do need to find that "mutual interest" we can appreciate together and by experimenting outside of comfort zones this could be achieved....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Is he aware of your need to see him? I'm only used to being receptive to my own needs because I can identify them. However, were I in a relationship I would want to be as receptive as possible to my partners' needs, because isn't that the point? But I can't do that if I don't know what they are...

    Then again maybe you guys aren't that serious yet.
    I have told him about this NEED by telling him that I miss him (usually in texts on an "evening off") he is ok with it... His usual (and very annoying) pattern is that say, we'll arrange to see each other on Thursday - this will be the Tuesday, then on the Thursday he'll go all weird and at about 2pm say he doesn't want to see me - I get upset as I've been looking forward to seeing him... Then at about 5:30/6pm he'll say he wants to see me.... Now I know this happens I don't contact him on the Thursday with a huge list of when I'm coming over etc as this is usually the thing that makes him go nutty - I leave it and wait for him to initiate the final plan... It's a control and power thing - he needs control and power and if he feels boxed in then he fights it... By taking away restrictions and letting him think there is no plan it makes planning easier - this sounds really but it works....

    We are only in month 3 and I don't pretend to understand all of him, I tend to use my intuition and feeling to help me and it sort of works....

    Thanks for your input phoenity - always good to hear it from the "other side"



    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    He's not thinking longer term because that's not what he does. He only vaguely knows how he feels right now, that he enjoys the feeling of being with you. But he doesn't yet know what that means, or what the future might make of it. If it's substance you need to find, it'll come along. So just keep enjoying each other for now

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post

    I have told him about this NEED by telling him that I miss him (usually in texts on an "evening off") he is ok with it... His usual (and very annoying) pattern is that say, we'll arrange to see each other on Thursday - this will be the Tuesday, then on the Thursday he'll go all weird and at about 2pm say he doesn't want to see me - I get upset as I've been looking forward to seeing him... Then at about 5:30/6pm he'll say he wants to see me.... Now I know this happens I don't contact him on the Thursday with a huge list of when I'm coming over etc as this is usually the thing that makes him go nutty - I leave it and wait for him to initiate the final plan... It's a control and power thing - he needs control and power and if he feels boxed in then he fights it... By taking away restrictions and letting him think there is no plan it makes planning easier - this sounds really but it works....

    We are only in month 3 and I don't pretend to understand all of him, I tend to use my intuition and feeling to help me and it sort of works....

    Thanks for your input phoenity - always good to hear it from the "other side"
    You're absolutely right. We need control and power over ourselves.

    Unwillingness to commit to do something sounds just like me. I don't want to commit to doing something until I know I want to do it, which is usually at the last minute. This irritates the hell out of my J friend, but he understands that's just the way I am.

    In an intimate relationship I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with this, especially if I knew how it made the other person feel. I would expect there to be more giving of myself and my time, ie commitment. And if I am unwilling to commit to something as simple as a request for my time on a single evening, then I would feel undeserving of the relationship.

    It's important to let him know how you feel. Were someone send me a text message of "I miss you", I wouldn't quite know how to respond to that. Is that a simple statement? Or is there more to it - (as in your case) a longing for more of my time? Let him know how his unwillingness to commit to simple things makes you feel. If he truly cares, he will make an effort to be accommodating.

    Please take this advice with a grain of salt. I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

  3. #143
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    phoenity, your responses have been very insightful. Thank you for sharing them.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #144
    Member janey_girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    You're absolutely right. We need control and power over ourselves.
    This is the crux of it, the power he needs is of himself...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Unwillingness to commit to do something sounds just like me. I don't want to commit to doing something until I know I want to do it, which is usually at the last minute. This irritates the hell out of my J friend, but he understands that's just the way I am.
    It irritates me a lot - I am a planner (although more recently I have managed to "let go" of long term planning in favour of short term plans) - but even I need to have an idea of what I'm doing in the week... I try to "chill out" (very hard but I at least try!)

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    In an intimate relationship I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with this, especially if I knew how it made the other person feel. I would expect there to be more giving of myself and my time, ie commitment. And if I am unwilling to commit to something as simple as a request for my time on a single evening, then I would feel undeserving of the relationship.
    I think he is a less mature ISTP than you are and is learning that others do need to know what they are doing and that they do have plans. I find "giving a taste of ones own medicine" works well with him, if he experiences what the other person is feeling he has a greater understanding of it.... Last week I was very vague about seeing him, he had an essay he needed to complete and needed my help with and I indicated I might not be over, this made him flip ever so slightly - but gave him an insight into how his need to "control" can make me feel... It sounds pretty manipulative, but I have tried other methods without success...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    It's important to let him know how you feel. Were someone send me a text message of "I miss you", I wouldn't quite know how to respond to that. Is that a simple statement? Or is there more to it - (as in your case) a longing for more of my time? Let him know how his unwillingness to commit to simple things makes you feel. If he truly cares, he will make an effort to be accommodating.
    I tell him what I mean by "missing him" - he is still not sure on the concept and there have been times when I have sent him sweet texts and he can't handle the emotion in them - it's almost as though, if I'm not physically there he can't take them in the same way if he is involved in something else. He calls it his "one focus mindset" as an INFJ my mind can often be very involved in a great number of concepts without issue - I do need to remember he doesn't function in the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Please take this advice with a grain of salt. I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
    Your advice is very useful and insightful - knowing what limits I can push and what ideas he might be willing to accept and what I should put up with is all useful stuff....

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post

    I think he is a less mature ISTP than you are and is learning that others do need to know what they are doing and that they do have plans. I find "giving a taste of ones own medicine" works well with him, if he experiences what the other person is feeling he has a greater understanding of it.... Last week I was very vague about seeing him, he had an essay he needed to complete and needed my help with and I indicated I might not be over, this made him flip ever so slightly - but gave him an insight into how his need to "control" can make me feel... It sounds pretty manipulative, but I have tried other methods without success...
    Wow, I must say that sounds oddly familiar.

    Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

    Kind of like how you might deal with a child or a pet...wait I'm comparing myself to a what?







    Your advice is very useful and insightful - knowing what limits I can push and what ideas he might be willing to accept and what I should put up with is all useful stuff....
    Thank you and good luck in your relationship

    Beautiful avatar by the way!

  6. #146
    Member janey_girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Wow, I must say that sounds oddly familiar.
    Hmmm - so it's not just my ISTP then?

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Some people just have to learn things the hard way.
    It took me time but I found out that it is the only way he really can learn/understand.... Not a route I would naturally choose, but if it works on him I think it's the best way forward....

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Kind of like how you might deal with a child or a pet...wait I'm comparing myself to a what?
    LOL - thing is, even his friends sometimes say I have a big kid on my hands...

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Thank you and good luck in your relationship

    Beautiful avatar by the way!
    Thanks for that! Your Avatar "inspired" me as I felt a bit bare not having one before!

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by janey_girl View Post
    Hmmm - so it's not just my ISTP then?


    It took me time but I found out that it is the only way he really can learn/understand.... Not a route I would naturally choose, but if it works on him I think it's the best way forward....


    LOL - thing is, even his friends sometimes say I have a big kid on my hands...


    Thanks for that! Your Avatar "inspired" me as I felt a bit bare not having one before!
    When I was much less mature and more self-centered, I had trouble seeing things from another point of view, especially when I wanted something, until the tables were turned on me and I could see first hand.

    I eventually changed when it became apparent to me that not everyone thinks the same way I do or has the same values. It's all about being considerate of others (Fe), and realizing the appreciation you receive in return feels awesome and is usually reciprocated


    I still consider myself the same child I was when I was younger. The only difference being I get to play with the big-boy toys and nobody can tell me "No"!

  8. #148
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I still consider myself the same child I was when I was younger. The only difference being I get to play with the big-boy toys and nobody can tell me "No"!

    Last weekend, when I was driving on the highway, a guy on a motorcycle came zooming by (way over the speed limit) then started tilting his motorcycle back and forth way up ahead. After that I saw him riding it standing up. In the past, I would have dismissed him as being an idiot who was going to end up getting himself killed. After reading more about ISTPs, however, I realized that he was probably an ISTP, and was experiencing pure Se joy weaving in and out of the traffic, feeling the air rush by and the sun shining on his body. He was probably very in control of that motorcycle and very aware of the movements of all of the cars around him. Cool. Then, I started thinking about what it must be like to experience life that way, and realized that I sort of had that kind of intense sensory experience when I was a child. Maybe ISTPs retain that kind of intense awareness of things that we all experience in childhood?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    experiencing pure Se joy weaving in and out of the traffic, feeling the air rush by and the sun shining on his body.
    Just a few of the things I love so much about riding my bicycle.

    Grinding away at 25mph powered only by my body, I get into this hypnotic rhythm, where everything else but my immediate surroundings disappear. As aero as can be slicing through the air, I no longer feel bound to the earth, and it's the closest I've ever been to feeling like a bird in flight.

    It's even better if I sit up, close my eyes, and spread my arms out like wings.

    He was probably very in control of that motorcycle and very aware of the movements of all of the cars around him. Cool. Then, I started thinking about what it must be like to experience life that way, and realized that I sort of had that kind of intense sensory experience when I was a child. Maybe ISTPs retain that kind of intense awareness of things that we all experience in childhood?






    I'm sure it's still with you.

  10. #150
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Just a few of the things I love so much about riding my bicycle.

    Grinding away at 25mph powered only by my body, I get into this hypnotic rhythm, where everything else but my immediate surroundings disappear. As aero as can be slicing through the air, I no longer feel bound to the earth, and it's the closest I've ever been to feeling like a bird in flight.

    It's even better if I sit up, close my eyes, and spread my arms out like wings.








    I'm sure it's still with you.
    Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

    My Se has been neglected for a long time... I'd like to do something about that. It would be nice to experience life in a different way for a change and not have my head in the clouds.

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