[ESTP] How do you deal with ESTPs?

[jenocyde]

- Keep an eye on them over time. Watch what they do with you and other people, and try to figure out what it is they do when they make you feel trapped. Eventually, you'll see a pattern (or a few patterns), and you'll see how to dodge it and trip them up on their own words. "Accidentally" throwing their own words/ideas back in their face right at the moment when it's inconvenient for them can be effective. It often leads them to back WAY off when they realize you're more trouble than you're worth. They prefer easier targets, because they're so plentiful.

*shudders* this actually worked for you? I have seen people pummeled for lesser offenses. ESTPs don't like to be ambushed... tread lightly with this stuff.

 

[Halla74]

*shudders* this actually worked for you? I have seen people pummeled for lesser offenses. ESTPs don't like to be ambushed... tread lightly with this stuff.

+1. I'm most likely the worst person you could ever try to verbally ambush, especially with my own words. Although a lover of mankind and a sincerely nice person, I will confess, I LOOOOOOVE CONFLICT, and I LOOOOOOOVE to ARGUE.

You know, I have never liked headgames. I don't try to manipulate people to do anything. If I need or want something done I simply ask for it. If the person I ask says "No" that's fine. Why do so many people consider being direct and forward as manipulative? I'm in a hurry, I don't have time to waste with such tomfoolery!

 

[Amargith]

But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent

 

[stellar renegade]

We always have a good reason for why we do what we do, even if we don't preplan anything. Something about the way we operate makes us act reasonable and intelligent, even dareIsayit, genius within the moment with no planning or forethought. Therefore it's going to be very hard to throw our own words back in our faces since we're watching ourselves and others so closely. The only ESTPs you'll probably get with that are the ones who have allowed themselves to become completely dishonest. You can be as intelligent as you want but if you're dishonest somebody's bound to catch you.

But, yeah, what she said. You can only do that with an ESTP who is willing to admit it when they're wrong, and not about something intensely personal. And only if you can build a real solid case for it and be a good debater. You need to know how to play your cards right and be able get out of there quick if the situation calls for it.

I don't really recommend it. Being spontaneously nice to us with tangible goods is probably the best way, that way you're not nailed down to some agreement you made to us or coerced into doing something we want, yet you're still doing something for us. We can definitely respect spontaneous generosity and love and care.

 

[stellar renegade]

But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent

I love to argue, and I love to counter opponents, but only when there's something in it for me. Sometimes it might just be status or to change someone else's viewpoint about something I value, but I won't do it pointlessly, there are other things more worth my time.

 

[Halla74]

But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent

You are a very bad girl.

Therefore it's going to be very hard to throw our own words back in our faces since we're watching ourselves and others so closely.

BINGO. We take in reality and process our next move in a much faster frame sequence than most others I have ever met. My ESTJ Dad is pretty damn quick too. My ESFP friend is a quick-witted bastard too. He and I get into it and just tear each other up with verbal garbage for the hell of it, it's terrible!

The only ESTPs you'll probably get with that are the ones who have allowed themselves to become completely dishonest. You can be as intelligent as you want but if you're dishonest somebody's bound to catch you.

Right and wise you are, Sir. There is nothing more satisfying than mopping the floor with a liar. Remember the first few things someone throws at you in an argument then loop back through it later. Inconsistent? LIAR! Time to call your ass out!

Being spontaneously nice to us with tangible goods is probably the best way, that way you're not nailed down to some agreement you made to us or coerced into doing something we want, yet you're still doing something for us. We can definitely respect spontaneous generosity and love and care.

I laughed so hard reading this. If an ESTP ever gives you a pen and a contract and asks you to sign the dotted line and be sure to press hard because there are 3 copies...RUN!!!

Spontaneous niceness is sincerely appreciated, no matter how insignificant. No one has to do anything for anybody. Whenever anyone offers me a drink, or takes my plate to the kitchen for me, or anything at all I am truly thankful and it reflects in my behavior toward them. It is right to return kindness with kindness.

 

[jenocyde]

Yeah, when you are playing these kinds of games with ESTPs, always have an exit plan. And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning. I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time. And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.

 

[Amargith]

Yeah, when you are playing these kinds of games with ESTPs, always have an exit plan. And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning. I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time. And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.

Understood. I tend to explore with these games anyways. They make the journey of getting to know someone so much more fun. Not sure though, if that's a goal we share however.

 

[Halla74]

And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning.

Very well said. I never really though of debate as a means to learn and explore but that is exactly what it is much of the time, especially to an auditory learner, which I am. Interesting!

I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time.

You would be this way even if you didn't live in New York, I am sure of it.

And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.

I have yet to piss of an ENTP in real life but I bet it would be a nasty, brutal experience. Despite the N/S difference the two types are the same, and I think that's a primary reason I've always gotten along with ENTPs IRL. We just seem to understand each other and wind up interested in the differences of our respective perceptions.

It slays me how ENTPs can say so much with three words or less. You and Synarch are great at this. I'm a long winded bastard.

 

[stellar renegade]

You are a very bad girl.

She's a very bad girl. And bad girls are AWESOME.

BINGO. We take in reality and process our next move in a much faster frame sequence than most others I have ever met. My ESTJ Dad is pretty damn quick too. My ESFP friend is a quick-witted bastard too. He and I get into it and just tear each other up with verbal garbage for the hell of it, it's terrible!

Ohman, I LOVE arguing. My mom hates it, I would always argue with her for the fun of it and not just to defend myself, and she couldn't stand it. I guess she was an easy target in my mind. She always said I could be a lawyer if I wanted.

Right and wise you are, Sir. There is nothing more satisfying than mopping the floor with a liar. Remember the first few things someone throws at you in an argument then loop back through it later. Inconsistent? LIAR! Time to call your ass out!

Oh, the RUSH!!!

There was nothing more satisfying than when I wrote up the email filled with every single thing my bitch of a manager had done wrong and sent it to the DM. The assistant specifically asked for a copy of it because she felt like it was a masterpiece.

I laughed so hard reading this. If an ESTP ever gives you a pen and a contract and asks you to sign the dotted line and be sure to press hard because there are 3 copies...RUN!!!

hahaha!!! Totally true. I definitely hold people to their word when something I want is on the line.

Spontaneous niceness is sincerely appreciated, no matter how insignificant. No one has to do anything for anybody. Whenever anyone offers me a drink, or takes my plate to the kitchen for me, or anything at all I am truly thankful and it reflects in my behavior toward them. It is right to return kindness with kindness.

Yep, exactly. That's my philosophy in a nutshell, no one has to do anything for anybody. If you've done something for me I take it as a huge favor because I'm not conscious of 'duties', only generosity.

It slays me how ENTPs can say so much with three words or less. You and Synarch are great at this. I'm a long winded bastard.

hahaha!!! Yes, I wind up going into every detail about what I'm talking about, even if it wears other people out. By the end they're just nodding their heads going, okay, okay, gotcha. It's a good method for getting people to just agree with you.

I had an ESTP coworker who would go even further. He would just nod his head while he was talking to you, and you would inevitably begin nodding your head too because of the natural tendency to mirror people. This then sent a signal to your brain to agree with what he said, and before you knew it, you were 100% convinced that what he was saying was divinely accurate.

haha, it was nothing short of amazing.

 

[jenocyde]

Halla, I am really glad you are on this forum.

I have yet to piss of an ENTP in real life but I bet it would be a nasty, brutal experience. Despite the N/S difference the two types are the same, and I think that's a primary reason I've always gotten along with ENTPs IRL. We just seem to understand each other and wind up interested in the differences of our respective perceptions.

It will never happen, don't worry. I'm sure there is nothing you could ever do to piss off an ENTP.

But to satisfy your curiosity... the same way that you get physical for pleasure and get physical for pain, we are mental for pleasure and mental for pain. Both of our methods are swift and painful, and there is no looking back. Think about it.
(however, I am not above knocking a bitch out, too.)

 

[Strawberrylover]

Obama is not ENFP and Hillary is not ESTJ. But nice try.

They are in the article I linked to. I can see Obama being an ENFP... or maybe it's just wishful thinking that we can rule the world.

 

[stellar renegade]

Halla, I am really glad you are on this forum.

Me too!

But to satisfy your curiosity... the same way that you get physical for pleasure and get physical for pain, we are mental for pleasure and mental for pain. Both of our methods are swift and painful, and there is no looking back. Think about it.
(however, I am not above knocking a bitch out, too.)

What do you mean? How do you get "mental for" pleasure or pain? How does that work?

They are in the article I linked to. I can see Obama being an ENFP... or maybe it's just wishful thinking that we can rule the world.

Oh God, I sure hope Obama doesn't start ruling the world. I'm glad his approval ratings are starting to go down.

 

[Strawberrylover]

What do you mean? How do you get "mental for" pleasure or pain? How does that work?

I think I use emotions for pleasure and pain. There was a thread here a while back, by Proteanmix I think, that asked if NFs use emotional challenges to grow. I would answer HELL YES!!! Why do you think we mix with such f-ed up people? A life without emotional challenges is a dead life to me.

Don't really care about extreme physical pleasures and pain tho. You're not going to catch me in a boxing ring anytime soon.

Oh God, I sure hope Obama doesn't start ruling the world. I'm glad his approval ratings are starting to go down.

Wow. So I guess type corresponds to political preferences too. Next topic!

 

[Amargith]

I think I use emotions for pleasure and pain. There was a thread here a while back, by Proteanmix I think, that asked if NFs use emotional challenges to grow. I would answer HELL YES!!! Why do you think we mix with such f-ed up people? A life without emotional challenges is a dead life to me.

Don't really care about extreme physical pleasures and pain tho. You're not going to catch me in a boxing ring anytime soon.

 

[jenocyde]

What do you mean? How do you get "mental for" pleasure or pain? How does that work?

The same way I catalog your sexual likes and dislikes to get mental stimulation, I also catalog your personality, your hopes and your fears. I can and will systematically destroy you. It's not something that happens often and I only do it if there is no other way. And it's not something I am even comfortable admitting, but I am capable of completely breaking a person. And I do it quickly. And I don't feel bad about it because if it has to go to that level, then it was deserved.

 

[stellar renegade]

Hm. A most dangerous vixen. I like!

 

[jenocyde]

Hm. A most dangerous vixen. I like!

But it's the same with ESTPs, raw physical passion in sex. Kick your ass when angry. The physicality is what drives you. It's purely mental for me. And for the ENFPs, I guess it's emotional.

 

[Amargith]

The same way I catalog your sexual likes and dislikes to get mental stimulation, I also catalog your personality, your hopes and your fears. I can and will systematically destroy you. It's not something that happens often and I only do it if there is no other way. And it's not something I am even comfortable admitting, but I am capable of completely breaking a person. And I do it quickly. And I don't feel bad about it because if it has to go to that level, then it was deserved.

Interesting...and you don't employ any emotional insight for this at all? I tend to do the same but purely based on their fears, hopes, emotions, every emotional trigger they have, every little insecurity, every childhood trauma. I never use it to destroy though, but it has that potential. Could also explain why entps are reluctant to handign out that info. They know after all what it can be used for.

 

[Strawberrylover]

So I wonder if it's just the P types that try to push the envelope experientially. I wonder how Js learn and grow. Do they try to move the system forward? Is that the only way they grow? I've noticed that unhealthy Ps are scattered and unhealthy Js tend to be boxed in with their environments.

Just food for thought...