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  1. #71
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Yeah, they are. Like all "In Charge" types they do control. Not as overt a control as ESTJ, ENTJ or maybe ENFJ, but do control people around them, similar to "Behind the Scenes" types controlling information.
    ESTPs don't control other people; we inspire others to rise to their best while accomplishing our will.

    Some people need to be told what to do, let's face it. If it's a team endeavor, only one person is in charge, right?

    Also, there are some that can, others that will, but very few that can and will. ESTPs are of the few that "can and will." It's what we do!

  2. #72
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Like Titus Pullo... I find them both scary and sexy at the same time. Bulldozers... with the morality of pirates, and surprisingly canny; nobody I'd rather have at my back, on my side.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #73
    brat Mitzy's Avatar
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    the estp i know has a lot of quick outbursts
    im not sure if they need time alone to think or re-group or whatever. i just said think because thats something that i would do..

    and needy in relationships. i feel like im always doing the work and hes always asking for more and more. doesnt appreciate the things i do. only wants to see quick and very demonstrated results. its either 'his way' or no way. either on his terms and standards, or else whatever youve done is just shit. always demanding more and more and not just more, but PERFECT in his terms. or it just doesnt count and storms out or dismisses me

    he is controlling in the fact that hes a fucking nazi when it comes to how i do things. especially since i like to do things differently in so many ways. he doesnt care about whichever way i want to improvise because again, you just have to do it his way and theres no changing his mind.


    either way, he might be like you've described...but with OTHER people.
    maybe hes an estj but i dont think so.

    hes a total 'guy'
    likes working out and getting dirty and playing sports
    messy and horse plays with his friends and all that stuff
    hes energetic and for the most part fun and funny to be around
    its just he gets into this bad attitude whenever i do something he doesnt agree with
    i usually leave him alone for a couple of minutes and come back
    but when i do come back hes STILL mad
    for the SMALLEST reason ever!
    so so stubborn
    and yes, like all entp's, i do like to argue/debate but i cant with him. when i try, not only does he get furious and all hell breaks loose, but the whole thing just takes too long. eventually, he comes around. but i just dont have patience for it. and im pretty laid back so i just go along with whatever he says to avoid the whole scene. save the drama, i guess

    i just dont understand. i wish he wasnt so..uptight about things..
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  4. #74
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    sure the guy's not an estj ? (or on steroids)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #75
    brat Mitzy's Avatar
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    maybe he is >_>
    oh no
    MAYBE HE IS.
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  6. #76
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    see, and i didn't even get to the part about working out, that's how clairvoyant I can be.

    Also he really reminds me about my father, getting intellectualy forceful with people inside the 'private sphere' this way is very estj to me.

    (that, and the 'roids)

    My father used to take on lots of projects, do horse riding, sports, was against the authority but only because it didn't agree with his own personal\family values.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #77
    brat Mitzy's Avatar
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    hahaha
    he IS like his father, too...which is weird

    his dad is an older and [very] serious man who used to be apart of the red army back in russia
    hes an intj, i believe

    idk
    sometimes i feel like we're his parents
    yelling at each other every 5 mins and then laughing after

    but after reading more descriptions, i think thats exactly what he is.
    he does value traditions and all that
    so now i have to deal with a entj/russian/jew/taurus
    k.
    [save me plox]
    She talks pretty but says mean things

  8. #78
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    ESTPs don't control other people; we inspire others to rise to their best while accomplishing our will.

    Some people need to be told what to do, let's face it. If it's a team endeavor, only one person is in charge, right?

    Also, there are some that can, others that will, but very few that can and will. ESTPs are of the few that "can and will." It's what we do!
    I rest my point.

  9. #79
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Yeah, they are. Like all "In Charge" types they do control. Not as overt a control as ESTJ, ENTJ or maybe ENFJ, but do control people around them, similar to "Behind the Scenes" types controlling information.
    Interesting point even if I still disagree.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    Interesting point even if I still disagree.
    While an ESTP likes to lead they don't dominate... meaning as soon as someone isn't having fun or isn't comfortable we are never going to be all like "too bad, do what we say"... we are indifferent to people following us really, yet people just seem to do it anyway (some people like to follow)

    I agree halla74s post before, telling people what to do isn't controlling and we usually have reason (team situation) or if we are asking a favor we always have something to offer in return or if we don't have something to offer we make damn sure we are not demanding

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Like Titus Pullo... I find them both scary and sexy at the same time. Bulldozers... with the morality of pirates, and surprisingly canny; nobody I'd rather have at my back, on my side.
    Sexy sure, I'll take a compliment but honestly... why scary? In what way?
    What's bulldozer about us? Have you not met ESTPs similar to yourself?

    You have me confused to be honest, you seem to think we are on another scale or planet, ENTPs I've heard "get to the same result in a slightly different manner to the ESTP"

    What do morals have to do with type? Do you think an ESTP is more likely to have I quote.. "pirate morals" than an ENTP?

    sub you never cease to amaze me on your rather warped and stereotyped view of ESTPs regardless of if you envy those kind of people or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitzy View Post
    the estp i know has a lot of quick outbursts
    im not sure if they need time alone to think or re-group or whatever. i just said think because thats something that i would do..

    and needy in relationships. i feel like im always doing the work and hes always asking for more and more. doesnt appreciate the things i do. only wants to see quick and very demonstrated results. its either 'his way' or no way. either on his terms and standards, or else whatever youve done is just shit. always demanding more and more and not just more, but PERFECT in his terms. or it just doesnt count and storms out or dismisses me

    he is controlling in the fact that hes a fucking nazi when it comes to how i do things. especially since i like to do things differently in so many ways. he doesnt care about whichever way i want to improvise because again, you just have to do it his way and theres no changing his mind.


    either way, he might be like you've described...but with OTHER people.
    maybe hes an estj but i dont think so.

    hes a total 'guy'
    likes working out and getting dirty and playing sports
    messy and horse plays with his friends and all that stuff
    hes energetic and for the most part fun and funny to be around
    its just he gets into this bad attitude whenever i do something he doesnt agree with
    i usually leave him alone for a couple of minutes and come back
    but when i do come back hes STILL mad
    for the SMALLEST reason ever!
    so so stubborn
    and yes, like all entp's, i do like to argue/debate but i cant with him. when i try, not only does he get furious and all hell breaks loose, but the whole thing just takes too long. eventually, he comes around. but i just dont have patience for it. and im pretty laid back so i just go along with whatever he says to avoid the whole scene. save the drama, i guess

    i just dont understand. i wish he wasnt so..uptight about things..
    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    sure the guy's not an estj ? (or on steroids)
    Agreed with EcK LOL good luck with that one....

    Also noted that you said "im pretty laid back" most P types I've found, usually are.

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    This seems to coincide with how I observe ESTPs as well. They know up front when they're being manipulated so in defense take a stand.

    As for empathy, similar to ENTPs, they do have Fe high in their function order. Interesting that you distinguish empathy and sympathy. ETPs will understand and appreciate the unfairness of a situation, however the Ti will allow them to eventually come around to determine regardless of what they may personally think, these are the principles from which something is being looked at. It's why they negotiate so well.

    The reading between the lines would be vintage Se. The old saying, a primrose down by the river, is still just a primrose for ESP types.
    Haha speaking of being similar to ENTPs... heh

    But yeah I pretty much agree with the above, maybe it is the Fe talking and thats where the empathy comes from

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Well you are the ESTP here, but I would think that since Ti is what they use to judge, if an ESP cannot come back with an instant response to a solution, they may have to remove themselves when needing to think something through. This only happens when they cannot use a template to resolve the immediate solution. Also from all that I have read, ESTPs are equally happy being autonomous which calls for alone time.
    Hum in regards to arguments with ENTPs, we can often "sense" that they are arguing for arguing sake...ENTPs love the debate, we can too but sometimes its just pointless

    Also its true that we know very quickly when we are getting manipulated or "played along" which could also be reasons for us not caring about the argument

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I would find it hard to believe that ESTPs would appear needy, unless you are comparing them to ITPs who the most independent of all types. I also beg to differ on the refusal to reciprocate. I am not sure where this comes from since ESTPs naturally want to help others, especially those they consider friends and family. To the contrary, I would think that ENTs would feel a since of entitlement therefore refuse to believe they should reciprocate. Just my opinion.
    Exactly what I thought, the quote was originally from an ENTP too, denial maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    This is relative since EPs use their auxiliary function (Ti/Fi) to reason, which Jung considers subjective. On the otherhand when Jung references to objective/subjective he is merely pointing out how extraverts dependon objects and introverts internalize. I have to agree that depending on how you are using the term subjectivity/objectivity, Ti will make ESTPs subjective since it's that function they use to make decisions. The Se merely brings in the information to make the decision with. Thanks for the post Unique, very interesting take on how you see yourself as ESTP.
    That to me, its weird... I think it would be relative, though I don't see how Ti could be attributed to being subjective or objective really... but one would think that being a thinking process it would be more likely to be objective.

    Anyway no problem I'm glad there's a few ESTPs around posting

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