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  1. #201
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    - Keep an eye on them over time. Watch what they do with you and other people, and try to figure out what it is they do when they make you feel trapped. Eventually, you'll see a pattern (or a few patterns), and you'll see how to dodge it and trip them up on their own words. "Accidentally" throwing their own words/ideas back in their face right at the moment when it's inconvenient for them can be effective. It often leads them to back WAY off when they realize you're more trouble than you're worth. They prefer easier targets, because they're so plentiful.
    *shudders* this actually worked for you? I have seen people pummeled for lesser offenses. ESTPs don't like to be ambushed... tread lightly with this stuff.

  2. #202
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    *shudders* this actually worked for you? I have seen people pummeled for lesser offenses. ESTPs don't like to be ambushed... tread lightly with this stuff.
    +1. I'm most likely the worst person you could ever try to verbally ambush, especially with my own words. Although a lover of mankind and a sincerely nice person, I will confess, I LOOOOOOVE CONFLICT, and I LOOOOOOOVE to ARGUE.

    You know, I have never liked headgames. I don't try to manipulate people to do anything. If I need or want something done I simply ask for it. If the person I ask says "No" that's fine. Why do so many people consider being direct and forward as manipulative? I'm in a hurry, I don't have time to waste with such tomfoolery!

  3. #203
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent
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  4. #204
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    We always have a good reason for why we do what we do, even if we don't preplan anything. Something about the way we operate makes us act reasonable and intelligent, even dareIsayit, genius within the moment with no planning or forethought. Therefore it's going to be very hard to throw our own words back in our faces since we're watching ourselves and others so closely. The only ESTPs you'll probably get with that are the ones who have allowed themselves to become completely dishonest. You can be as intelligent as you want but if you're dishonest somebody's bound to catch you.

    But, yeah, what she said. You can only do that with an ESTP who is willing to admit it when they're wrong, and not about something intensely personal. And only if you can build a real solid case for it and be a good debater. You need to know how to play your cards right and be able get out of there quick if the situation calls for it.

    I don't really recommend it. Being spontaneously nice to us with tangible goods is probably the best way, that way you're not nailed down to some agreement you made to us or coerced into doing something we want, yet you're still doing something for us. We can definitely respect spontaneous generosity and love and care.
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  5. #205
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent
    I love to argue, and I love to counter opponents, but only when there's something in it for me. Sometimes it might just be status or to change someone else's viewpoint about something I value, but I won't do it pointlessly, there are other things more worth my time.
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  6. #206
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    But sometimes it's fun to play games and relish in countering one's opponent
    You are a very bad girl.

    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    Therefore it's going to be very hard to throw our own words back in our faces since we're watching ourselves and others so closely.
    BINGO. We take in reality and process our next move in a much faster frame sequence than most others I have ever met. My ESTJ Dad is pretty damn quick too. My ESFP friend is a quick-witted bastard too. He and I get into it and just tear each other up with verbal garbage for the hell of it, it's terrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    The only ESTPs you'll probably get with that are the ones who have allowed themselves to become completely dishonest. You can be as intelligent as you want but if you're dishonest somebody's bound to catch you.
    Right and wise you are, Sir. There is nothing more satisfying than mopping the floor with a liar. Remember the first few things someone throws at you in an argument then loop back through it later. Inconsistent? LIAR! Time to call your ass out!

    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    Being spontaneously nice to us with tangible goods is probably the best way, that way you're not nailed down to some agreement you made to us or coerced into doing something we want, yet you're still doing something for us. We can definitely respect spontaneous generosity and love and care.
    I laughed so hard reading this. If an ESTP ever gives you a pen and a contract and asks you to sign the dotted line and be sure to press hard because there are 3 copies...RUN!!!

    Spontaneous niceness is sincerely appreciated, no matter how insignificant. No one has to do anything for anybody. Whenever anyone offers me a drink, or takes my plate to the kitchen for me, or anything at all I am truly thankful and it reflects in my behavior toward them. It is right to return kindness with kindness.

  7. #207
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Yeah, when you are playing these kinds of games with ESTPs, always have an exit plan. And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning. I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time. And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.

  8. #208
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Yeah, when you are playing these kinds of games with ESTPs, always have an exit plan. And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning. I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time. And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.
    Understood. I tend to explore with these games anyways. They make the journey of getting to know someone so much more fun. Not sure though, if that's a goal we share however.
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  9. #209
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And Amar, us ENTPs are the same way... we don't debate for fun and games, most often it's to learn and explore. And fun is a byproduct of learning.
    Very well said. I never really though of debate as a means to learn and explore but that is exactly what it is much of the time, especially to an auditory learner, which I am. Interesting!

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't like to waste time with silly arguments or foolish games. Get to the point, be direct and don't waste my time.
    You would be this way even if you didn't live in New York, I am sure of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And certainly, don't build traps. You may win the battle, but you will lose the war - and maybe some limbs.
    I have yet to piss of an ENTP in real life but I bet it would be a nasty, brutal experience. Despite the N/S difference the two types are the same, and I think that's a primary reason I've always gotten along with ENTPs IRL. We just seem to understand each other and wind up interested in the differences of our respective perceptions.

    It slays me how ENTPs can say so much with three words or less. You and Synarch are great at this. I'm a long winded bastard.

  10. #210
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    You are a very bad girl.
    She's a very bad girl. And bad girls are AWESOME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    BINGO. We take in reality and process our next move in a much faster frame sequence than most others I have ever met. My ESTJ Dad is pretty damn quick too. My ESFP friend is a quick-witted bastard too. He and I get into it and just tear each other up with verbal garbage for the hell of it, it's terrible!
    Ohman, I LOVE arguing. My mom hates it, I would always argue with her for the fun of it and not just to defend myself, and she couldn't stand it. I guess she was an easy target in my mind. She always said I could be a lawyer if I wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Right and wise you are, Sir. There is nothing more satisfying than mopping the floor with a liar. Remember the first few things someone throws at you in an argument then loop back through it later. Inconsistent? LIAR! Time to call your ass out!
    Oh, the RUSH!!!

    There was nothing more satisfying than when I wrote up the email filled with every single thing my bitch of a manager had done wrong and sent it to the DM. The assistant specifically asked for a copy of it because she felt like it was a masterpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I laughed so hard reading this. If an ESTP ever gives you a pen and a contract and asks you to sign the dotted line and be sure to press hard because there are 3 copies...RUN!!!
    hahaha!!! Totally true. I definitely hold people to their word when something I want is on the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Spontaneous niceness is sincerely appreciated, no matter how insignificant. No one has to do anything for anybody. Whenever anyone offers me a drink, or takes my plate to the kitchen for me, or anything at all I am truly thankful and it reflects in my behavior toward them. It is right to return kindness with kindness.
    Yep, exactly. That's my philosophy in a nutshell, no one has to do anything for anybody. If you've done something for me I take it as a huge favor because I'm not conscious of 'duties', only generosity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    It slays me how ENTPs can say so much with three words or less. You and Synarch are great at this. I'm a long winded bastard.
    hahaha!!! Yes, I wind up going into every detail about what I'm talking about, even if it wears other people out. By the end they're just nodding their heads going, okay, okay, gotcha. It's a good method for getting people to just agree with you.

    I had an ESTP coworker who would go even further. He would just nod his head while he was talking to you, and you would inevitably begin nodding your head too because of the natural tendency to mirror people. This then sent a signal to your brain to agree with what he said, and before you knew it, you were 100% convinced that what he was saying was divinely accurate.

    haha, it was nothing short of amazing.
    -stellar renegade
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