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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Are you sure this friend is not ESTJ? Desire to control you and constantly tell you what's best for you sounds awfully J to me.
    The characteristic, I believe, is too variable to be reliably applied to a preference of Judging.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    Your friend sounds like a bit of a douche bag no offence.
    If you'll scroll back up, you'll notice that I mentioned that the behaviour I mentioned has been a common thread among all my ESTP pals (and my dad too. But he's developed his F side and mellowed down a lot in the past half-decade)


    Most ESTPs are extreamly well liked. In fact they are one of the more "popular" personality types in a lot of cases.
    And my friends were all very much charmed by my housemate when they first met him. Two of my pals crashed at my place for a week (in separate stays) and, when they left, each of them was at the end of their tether and they remarked on my seemingly boundless patience in my interactions with him.


    Edit: I also noticed you are in fact an F type. This could be why you are having issues with them. Just make sure you speak to the ESTP with your brain, not your heart.
    How do you propose I do that? With my housemate, the only time he respected my space was for a few days when I got as aggressive in my communication as he was and he seemed to respect that. I reverted to my usual self and, what do you, he did too. The ones I've known don't respect assertiveness; only aggressiveness.


    Thanks for the advice on 'selling'.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    #1)They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves.
    It's like you picked my brain and posted what I was thinking but couldn't quite string together.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    How do you propose I do that?
    I don't think you can. I've been trying to get my dad, the ISFP, to do that for as long as I can remember, to no avail except frustration. I have actually tried giving up countless times, but of course he won't let me, as he forwards his F-based opinions on politics and such regularly.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Are you sure this friend is not ESTJ? Desire to control you and constantly tell you what's best for you sounds awfully J to me.
    ESTJ's desire to control comes from a place of adhering to social mores...etc
    My ESTP pals' desire to control comes from a place of what is best for them and THEY THINK is best for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I don't think you can. I've been trying to get my dad, the ISFP, to do that for as long as I can remember, to no avail except frustration. I have actually tried giving up countless times, but of course he won't let me, as he forwards his F-based opinions on politics and such regularly.
    I can communicate quite well with my other T friends but it's the ESTP's particular brand of logic that puzzles me and I was seeking a response on what 'thinking with your head' means to an ESTP.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    #1)They do not deal with objective logic, it is subjective to themselves

    #2)Needy, without being reciprocated


    Ok, I'm done

    No more ESTP hate'n
    I didn't quote your other posts but you are just being plain bitter towards a type for no good reason now. What I said DOES apply to any healthy ESTP and most are far from needy people.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Are you sure this friend is not ESTJ? Desire to control you and constantly tell you what's best for you sounds awfully J to me.
    I would have to agree with you, from what I've heard described about this friend it sounds much more like an ESTJ to me. I can not relate to a lot of what has been said so it does sound a lot more like my ESTJ father than myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    Thanks for the advice on 'selling'.
    It was a metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    Pal will ask me to do X, I'll (cordially) pass, pal will persist and persist in the most annoying manner possible and will be even be a little aggressive (in a 'friendly' and 'humourous' manner) till I rather rudely shut him out or give in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    Pal will tell me what to do, how and when to do it and he knows what's best for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    With my housemate, the only time he respected my space was for a few days when I got as aggressive in my communication as he was and he seemed to respect that.
    Anyone else smell ESTJ?

    Sorry, but its true... I can relate to a lot of this only because it sounds like you are describing my father and I assure you, he annoys me.

    I know you seem hellbent convinced that this is ESTP behavior but I suggest you read some more descriptions.

    The most controlling thing I've personally done is probably give someone reasonable advice... which is hardly controlling.

    My ESTJ father on the other hand cannot stand things not to be the way they "should" be.

    I can also relate in the fact that he makes stupid jokes that are not funny that usually come back to him wanting you to do something.

    In a living situation the ESTP is likely to be a bit on the messy disorganized carefree side. While they like to "do" things as in... practical application... they usually need what they deem to be a "good" reason for doing the task. Often ESTPs are likely to be the kind to hire people to clean their house!

    I'm constantly searching for the "easier" way to do something. If there is a faster and better way than ill do it.

    On the other hand a ESTJ hates this behavior. They want closure and will do WHATEVER it takes to get it done even if it does not end up being the best way.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    It was a metaphor.
    I know.


    In a living situation the ESTP is likely to be a bit on the messy disorganized carefree side. While they like to "do" things as in... practical application... they usually need what they deem to be a "good" reason for doing the task. Often ESTPs are likely to be the kind to hire people to clean their house! .... I'm constantly searching for the "easier" way to do something. If there is a faster and better way than ill do it.
    That describes him perfectly and, believe me, I've not mistyped him. I'm speaking in particular about my former housemate but a lot of what I mentioned also applies to others of the type that I've known.


    Perhaps my type, with our behind-the-scenes communication style, is just incompatible with that particular type. I'd like to hear from ISFPs on this.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    I know.




    That describes him perfectly and, believe me, I've not mistyped him. I'm speaking in particular about my former housemate but a lot of what I mentioned also applies to others of the type that I've known.


    Perhaps my type, with our behind-the-scenes communication style, is just incompatible with that particular type.
    Its possible... with introverted feeling being dominant an ESTP may seem like some kind of deadly weapon to you.

    If you truely want to believe that there is no hope for improvement than we may as well stop talking now.

  9. #19

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    The only advice I can give you is the ESTPs I was thinking about came around alot when I proved myself (this was at work).

    The unfortunate thing is by that time I'd made my decision "screw you".
    You're either on my side or not.

    You need some leverage. Something they want. Those are the rules the type of person you're describing whether ESTP or ESTJ deals in.

    I have to think about it. I will post later.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo_(operalover) View Post
    We have an incredibly similar sense of humour and, once I get to know one, we get along like a house on fire... for a week or two and then I start avoiding them and they get perplexed. Perhaps I've only been meeting unhealthy ESTPs but a common thread with all that I've known is an intense need to manipulate and control other people. All of them that I've known, ranging from my father to my flatmate, have been like that. And a lot of the time, it either ends with a confrontation (which they seem to thrive on but which is draining for me) or me giving in and resenting the person later on.

    How do you best deal with them... or should I be reduced to avoiding them altogether?

    Mo
    Maybe you could try detachment. You say you get along well for a while. Some people show they care by seeking to influence others. So they could be attempting to build the relationship.

    There is the difference the between manipulation and influence too as I'm sure you're aware. Sometimes I find myself blocking peoples influence out of habit.

    So I would say the best way to deal with them is with an ironic detachment.
    That's what I try to do at least.

    Cool was once an attitude fostered by rebels and underdogs, such as slaves, prisoners, bikers and political dissents, etc., for whom open rebellion invited punishment, so it hid its defiance behind a wall of ironic detachment, distancing itself from the source of authority rather than directly confronting it.
    Am I helping at all or am I way off?

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