[MBTI General] The bane of your existence and intuitve narcissism

[rivercrow]

And I have no problem with finally having a vocabulary to describe these differences. But when Ns turn around and do the same things they complain SJs do to them, then everything turns ugly and destructive and MBTI does more harm than good.

That, and it's completely counter to what the theory and instrument were intended to achieve.

Edit:

Not that this applies to most of the folks here, but it does apply to me. From CAPT's MBTI Code of Ethics:

The information is not to be used to label, evaluate, or limit any individual in any way.
...
The administrator should be careful not to over generalize or over simplify results and imply that all people of a certain type behave the same way.
...
One should not state or imply that type explains everything.
Type does not reflect an individual's ability, intelligence, likelihood of success, emotions, or normalcy. Type is one important component of the complex human personality.

 

[spirilis]

I know proteanmix didn't want to touch the whole "MBTI is a tool" thing, but I'm going there anyway.

MBTI is a neat and useful system. It can be used for great good, to teach people ways to effectively communicate with others more effectively than they could without it.

I'm using the bridge analogy. It helps to build bridges. But what can be used to build bridges, can also be used to destroy them. It is our personal responsibility to use this tool correctly, and to know what uses produce which effect.
Using MBTI for discrimination, eg mapping negative behaviors into typologic causes, destroys bridges.

 

[heart]

And I have no problem with finally having a vocabulary to describe these differences. But when Ns turn around and do the same things they complain SJs do to them, then everything turns ugly and destructive and MBTI does more harm than good.

That thread that you mentioned, the one about the ISxJ's, I did not see it as being totally 100 percent negative or destructive. Just some venting and then some comparing and then some brainstorming about how best to handle situations with those types when conflicts begin. I do not think it did more harm than good.

 

[proteanmix]

That thread that you mentioned, the one about the ISxJ's, I did not see it as being totally 100 percent negative or destructive. Just some venting and then some comparing and then some brainstorming about how best to handle situations with those types when conflicts begin. I do not think it did more harm than good.

It's not that one thread, although that thread is what spurred me to write what I did. Like I said in the OP, this is a reoccurring theme on MBTI forums and lists. It's not just one thread that occurs every now and then. At any give list or forum there are several posts and/or threads condemning SJs.

 

[Shimpei]

I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.

What I see is MOST of you use your knowledge of MBTI types to justify yourself to have prejudice and to bitch against some other types.
If you continue bickering and bitching you'll become very bitter and boring old men and women, guys. I doubt that most of you really want to understand people better.
Get out of your heads and start handle things on a personal level. I have the feeling that most of you try to label people without even really knowing their true types, anyway. If MBTI is an excuse for you to pigeonhole and justify your grudges against people, then fuck MBTI and fuck YOU!

 

[wildcat]

I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.

What I see is MOST of you use your knowledge of MBTI types to justify yourself to have prejudice and to bitch against some other types.
If you continue bickering and bitching you'll become very bitter and boring old men and women, guys. I doubt that most of you really want to understand people better.
Get out of your heads and start handle things on a personal level. I have the feeling that most of you try to label people without even really knowing their true types, anyway. If MBTI is an excuse for you to pigeonhole and justify your grudges against people, then fuck MBTI and fuck YOU!

I agree.

Not about the choice of words though

 

[rivercrow]

I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.

I agree.

Kind of a shame to leap to conclusions that way.

People grew and got to know each other during this thread.

 

[Shimpei]

Kind of a shame to leap to conclusions that way.

People grew and got to know each other during this thread.

I could have said: Re:OP

(I got to the third page before I posted my opinion.)

 

[Xander]

Odd thing to think about here.

When the typical INTP complain comes out about SJs and society in general, they are manifesting more ESFJ than they would probably admit. Odd that the one time the communication would actually be fully understood is when it's negative.

 

[KMCE]

I've been floating around various MBTI related websites since I found out about MBTI in 2004. One thing I have consistently, without fail noticed is the distinct vein of antipathy towards Ss, particularly SJs.

First of all, I'm sick of intuitives acting like they're some more evolved human being that if only the pissant little Ss that populate the world would disappear they would have some type of utopia on earth. Oh, we could keep a few around to pick up the garbage (ISTJs I suppose) and fix our cars (ISTPs?), but the rest can all die.

...

I know you write this with good intention. But honestly why bother. I agree with the ENTJ guy Maverick in that type prejudices are not worth fighting against.

And hey, you don't go to America and say America sucks . You have PMS if you say we suck . If you keep this going we should wish you all sort of terrible things .

 

[wildcat]

Kind of a shame to leap to conclusions that way.

People grew and got to know each other during this thread.

My agreement was with the first post; especially with the expressed concern about the rather prevalent idea that the ISTJs are there to pick up the garbage and the ISTPs are there to fix the cars and the other Ss can die.

I understood Shimpei did not think this is a good strategy either.
As for the other posts I did not comment. It is good people grew and got to know each other.

In the name of Shimpei and myself I express regret and we ask for forgiveness of every party concerned. We shall mend our ways. Shimpei and I are truly sorry for the unfortunate misunderstanding.

I have not negotiated with Shimpei about the highly deplorable incident. I trust that she in a way no less than myself does find the criticism useful.

 

[Shimpei]

I don't apologize for anything except that f-word.
I replied to the original post, agreeing with it.

 

[Zhash]

No I haven't read the book, I'll take a look. And I'd like to add there are many other ways of not fitting in with the majority that have nothing to do with typology and are much more salient.

I don't think I'm blowing anything out of proportion. Yes my language was a bit dramatic, but have you even taken a cursory glance at other MBTI related forums, besides INTPc? Go to Yahoo and look up any MBTI groups. Thread upon thread of, "SJs are ruining my life." Do you not think your thread about ISFJ Inflexibilty is a bit out of proportion?

It's like people focus on the 1 SJ that annoys them and ignore the 10 others that are not a problem and I don't get that.

I forgot to tell you........I really like your passion. I bet you're going to turn out like me when you're in your 50's. I hope I'm alive to see it.

 

[proteanmix]

I forgot to tell you........I really like your passion. I bet you're going to turn out like me when you're in your 50's. I hope I'm alive to see it.

I'm so easy.

 

[Zhash]

I'm so easy.

I can tell. Love you......

 

[heart]

S types most often complain about how N types act and think and tell them their way is wrong and that they need to change.

N types most often on these boards complain about S types complaining about them and the S types attempting to be controlling in this way and the S types lack of interest in trying to understand the N type.

Yet when the N types do that, they are told they are being too much like the things they don't like about S types. So N types must accept without complaint the complaints that S types send their way or else they are just as bad?

I think that N types express a great desire to understand the S types and these boards are full of that if one actually wants to see that side of things insead of just focusing on the frustrations and vents. Speaking for myself however, I admit that I get mighty weary of always in my offline life being the one who makes allowances for S types and trying to understand their POV. It seems like it is that way. The ones I know have zero desire to make allowances for my POV, to them when I show my real self I am most often just a silly dreamer who has a warped view on things.

I admit I have some really extreme cookie cutter versions of S in my life and it is unfortunate for me that I am way over on the N scale, which in my deepest mind I do see as a sort of disadvantage in dealing with other people and I am working on trying to develop my S traits more fully.

 

[Zhash]

I admit I have some really extreme cookie cutter versions of S in my life.

Cookie Cutter versions write thank you notes after sex.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't apologize for anything except that f-word.
I replied to the original post, agreeing with it.

The F-bomb was rather unexpected... but that only made it better.

Cookie Cutter versions write thank you notes after sex.

Now it's my turn to laugh at how bad YOU are.

I forgot to tell you........I really like your passion. I bet you're going to turn out like me when you're in your 50's. I hope I'm alive to see it.

I'm so easy.

I can tell. Love you......

Wait a minute...! What's all this???

 

[ptgatsby]

Cookie Cutter versions write thank you notes after sex.

Non-INTJs call these love notes, just so you know. Most people like them.

( )

FWIW, my INTJ gf wrote me a whole lot of notes expressing her feelings for me. It's about the only way she can get express her feelings...

 

[heart]

Cookie Cutter versions write thank you notes after sex.

I thought these days they just forward one of those "send this to 2345 people or suffer bad luck forever" spams.