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  1. #41
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And I have no problem with finally having a vocabulary to describe these differences. But when Ns turn around and do the same things they complain SJs do to them, then everything turns ugly and destructive and MBTI does more harm than good.
    That, and it's completely counter to what the theory and instrument were intended to achieve.

    Edit:

    Not that this applies to most of the folks here, but it does apply to me. From CAPT's MBTI Code of Ethics:
    The information is not to be used to label, evaluate, or limit any individual in any way.
    ...
    The administrator should be careful not to over generalize or over simplify results and imply that all people of a certain type behave the same way.
    ...
    One should not state or imply that type explains everything.
    Type does not reflect an individual's ability, intelligence, likelihood of success, emotions, or normalcy. Type is one important component of the complex human personality.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  2. #42
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I know proteanmix didn't want to touch the whole "MBTI is a tool" thing, but I'm going there anyway.

    MBTI is a neat and useful system. It can be used for great good, to teach people ways to effectively communicate with others more effectively than they could without it.

    I'm using the bridge analogy. It helps to build bridges. But what can be used to build bridges, can also be used to destroy them. It is our personal responsibility to use this tool correctly, and to know what uses produce which effect.
    Using MBTI for discrimination, eg mapping negative behaviors into typologic causes, destroys bridges.

  3. #43
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And I have no problem with finally having a vocabulary to describe these differences. But when Ns turn around and do the same things they complain SJs do to them, then everything turns ugly and destructive and MBTI does more harm than good.
    That thread that you mentioned, the one about the ISxJ's, I did not see it as being totally 100 percent negative or destructive. Just some venting and then some comparing and then some brainstorming about how best to handle situations with those types when conflicts begin. I do not think it did more harm than good.

  4. #44
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    That thread that you mentioned, the one about the ISxJ's, I did not see it as being totally 100 percent negative or destructive. Just some venting and then some comparing and then some brainstorming about how best to handle situations with those types when conflicts begin. I do not think it did more harm than good.
    It's not that one thread, although that thread is what spurred me to write what I did. Like I said in the OP, this is a reoccurring theme on MBTI forums and lists. It's not just one thread that occurs every now and then. At any give list or forum there are several posts and/or threads condemning SJs.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #45
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.

    What I see is MOST of you use your knowledge of MBTI types to justify yourself to have prejudice and to bitch against some other types.
    If you continue bickering and bitching you'll become very bitter and boring old men and women, guys. I doubt that most of you really want to understand people better.
    Get out of your heads and start handle things on a personal level. I have the feeling that most of you try to label people without even really knowing their true types, anyway. If MBTI is an excuse for you to pigeonhole and justify your grudges against people, then fuck MBTI and fuck YOU!

  6. #46
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.

    What I see is MOST of you use your knowledge of MBTI types to justify yourself to have prejudice and to bitch against some other types.
    If you continue bickering and bitching you'll become very bitter and boring old men and women, guys. I doubt that most of you really want to understand people better.
    Get out of your heads and start handle things on a personal level. I have the feeling that most of you try to label people without even really knowing their true types, anyway. If MBTI is an excuse for you to pigeonhole and justify your grudges against people, then fuck MBTI and fuck YOU!
    I agree.

    Not about the choice of words though

  7. #47
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    I don't bother reading all the posts on this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I agree.
    Kind of a shame to leap to conclusions that way.

    People grew and got to know each other during this thread.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Kind of a shame to leap to conclusions that way.

    People grew and got to know each other during this thread.
    I could have said: Re:OP

    (I got to the third page before I posted my opinion.)

  9. #49
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Odd thing to think about here.

    When the typical INTP complain comes out about SJs and society in general, they are manifesting more ESFJ than they would probably admit. Odd that the one time the communication would actually be fully understood is when it's negative.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've been floating around various MBTI related websites since I found out about MBTI in 2004. One thing I have consistently, without fail noticed is the distinct vein of antipathy towards Ss, particularly SJs.

    First of all, I'm sick of intuitives acting like they're some more evolved human being that if only the pissant little Ss that populate the world would disappear they would have some type of utopia on earth. Oh, we could keep a few around to pick up the garbage (ISTJs I suppose) and fix our cars (ISTPs?), but the rest can all die.

    ...
    I know you write this with good intention. But honestly why bother. I agree with the ENTJ guy Maverick in that type prejudices are not worth fighting against.

    And hey, you don't go to America and say America sucks . You have PMS if you say we suck . If you keep this going we should wish you all sort of terrible things .
    "Man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated."
    - Ernest Hemingway

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