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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    My middle brother (also ESFP) who was born between two introverts, he drove us nuts for the attention he needed. I honestly wish that the family would have left me the hell alone a lot of the time and bloody well focus on him so he could burn off the energy.
    They should have insisted on having him participate in sports. It would have helped.

  2. #22
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Perhaps you have less trouble because you are also an extrovert and thus have your own ways of making up for your weirdness. Then again, I have a brother (ISFP), and two friends (ISTJ, ESFP) who I do enjoy being around even though they may drive me crazy sometimes. My two grandmothers (ESFJ, ISFJ) have their good moments and bad moments, but I still love them.

    My real complaints? My mother (ESFP) who is likely more of a pain in my ass due to her being the daughter of an alcoholic who never got therapy and instead feels everyone else owes her for the pain. My middle brother (also ESFP) who was born between two introverts, he drove us nuts for the attention he needed. I honestly wish that the family would have left me the hell alone a lot of the time and bloody well focus on him so he could burn off the energy. (Yes I blame family culture for that one, big reason why I hate being the eldest).
    Well I find being the child of an alcoholic a more plausible reason for any dysfunction than your mother being an ESFP. It seems like people will stop at ESFP and go from there instead of going with the more obvious reason. That was my point in the beginning, that people (Ns) (from what I read on N-dominated MBTI forums when this type of thing happens) stop at type and don't seek any more reason for behavior. It's lazy thinking.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  3. #23
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Well I find being the child of an alcoholic a more plausible reason for any dysfunction than your mother being an ESFP. It seems like people will stop at ESFP and go from there instead of going with the more obvious reason. That was my point in the beginning, that people (Ns) (from what I read on N-dominated MBTI forums when this type of thing happens) stop at type and don't seek any more reason for behavior. It's lazy thinking.
    I know it's the reason, her being ESFP is only the conduit through which the problem is expressed along with how she dealt with hyperthyroid and chronic migraines.

  4. #24
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    They should have insisted on having him participate in sports. It would have helped.
    My mother was already too much of a mess to think of anyone else other than herself. She just let him get away with whatever he wanted till he directly annoyed her. My father would get us all to do laps around the house whenever we were with him. The rest of the family we dealt with, though, was part Asian and resulted in me (being the eldest) getting 95% of the attention while my extroverted brother bounced in the background thinking of ways to take his vengeance out.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I know it's the reason, her being ESFP is only the conduit through which the problem is expressed along with how she dealt with hyperthyroid and chronic migraines.
    What's with her hyperthyroid--was she swinging off the chandelier?

  6. #26
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    What's with her hyperthyroid--was she swinging off the chandelier?
    It would go into overdrive then cut out from over working itself, then go into overdrive again. I just learned to hide in my room or run outside unless I absolutely had to be around my mother for some reason she required. The nickname I coined for her and my brothers agreed with it: Hurricane Heather... (sorry cafe)

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Well I find being the child of an alcoholic a more plausible reason for any dysfunction than your mother being an ESFP. It seems like people will stop at ESFP and go from there instead of going with the more obvious reason. That was my point in the beginning, that people (Ns) (from what I read on N-dominated MBTI forums when this type of thing happens) stop at type and don't seek any more reason for behavior. It's lazy thinking.
    Do they? Maybe I just overlook it, I didn't remember that being the trend... It just feels like a large generalization to me. But I guess it doesn't matter...

    As soon as someone says their parent(s) were alcoholics, the thing type seems most useful for is simply determining the probable impact of the behavior on the child (based on the parent's type, determining how the alcoholic behavior probably played out, and the child's type in order to determine which anxieties were increased / catered to and what coping mechanisms were used and distorted).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #28
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Do they? Maybe I just overlook it, I didn't remember that being the trend... It just feels like a large generalization to me. But I guess it doesn't matter...
    I'm going to interject here and say that this is absolutely the trend. Almost every negative attribute that someone has ends up being "a type thing". Parents weren't responsible? It's cause they were SPs. Parents dominated you? They were SJs. Parents were perfect? Cause they were NTs (or sometimes NFs, but then you get the flaky NF parent topics sometimes, though sometimes you get the NT cold parent thing, just not at the two centrals).

    There is a huge bias in how people see people when they start applying type... and it happens inside and outside the forum. This is one of the major reasons why general knowledge of type is actually detrimental, rather than the syllabus that the professionals coach with. It's out in spades on these forums... a lot of 'extreme' concepts being introduced into people's frameworks... functional views, something that is rarely useful in group situations, is a good example, as are the concepts of behavioural absolutes being linked to cognitive theory.

    It's a perfect example of how Ns are inferior to Ss. Over application of dreamy systems that drift away from the fundamental theories and applications.

    In any case, this is one of the reasons why it wasn't used at my workplace.

  9. #29
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I see proteanmix's original point, albeit that came off rather childish, inflammatory maybe (better choice of word). The fact of the matter is, MBTI provides a sorting method to categorize human beings--any time you do that, you run the risk of discrimination. (see: race, gender, ethnicity, popularity, clothing style, etc.). The chief point she was trying to make is that it's discrimination--and it is NOT okay.

    I'll whine on my little soap box a minute and admit I've had my fair share of flak, ridicule or general ostracism from people where the root cause was just too vague to understand, but in retrospect looked eerily similar to an S/N conflict of personality. Fact of the matter is, I didn't give a shit. I let that stuff slide off my back and keep hauling. If I find a conflict of interest which may directly affect me, regardless of whether it's a stereotypical SJ vs. NT viewpoint or whatnot, I will fight my position and take the battle to my opponent's front door, in whichever format is required to win. (Need to come up with concrete examples on why X won't work but Y will? Sure thing, give me 15 minutes...)

    I'll also say that out of all the friends I've ever had, many of my N-type ones somehow stick together with me even after years of separation or loss of contact, while most of my SJ/SP friends have virtually disappeared off the face of the earth to me. This happened even long before I knew about MBTI and S vs. N, and I've discovered the distinction through past reflection. But I don't care, I'll hang with anyone if given the opportunity.

    Even then, there are exceptions. An old xNFJ friend left the online forums/blogs I frequented around 2-3yrs ago and never followed up contact. An old ESTP friend from way back in elementary school/boy scouting/etc., I hang out with him every summer at his parents' house near the ocean.

  10. #30
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    The nickname I coined for her and my brothers agreed with it: Hurricane Heather... (sorry cafe)
    No worries. It's funny.

    You have my sympathy, BTW. My maternal unit is an ESFP, too.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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