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  1. #1
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Default Who to vote for?

    Update: see post #24 for new idea


    Here you can convince me to vote for your preferred person/party/ideology, or whatever. You have an opportunity: I know what I want, but I'm still pretty undecided about who to vote for in order to get there. And I could vote for (or against) one candidate for more than just one reason.

    Any MBTI type, of course.




    ------------------------------------------------

    I put this in this section, because it's specifically about me and my vote, not how everyone else is going to vote. So it's just my personal choice.

    To clarify, I mean all positions. Where I am, a President, one Senator, my House Representative, and some local positions that I should know better are all running for election or re-election.

    I'm voting in a semi-rural Georgia district, and I'm 21 years old, so this is my first federal-level election. I'm pretty informed about politics and news, so don't think that you'll go over my head. Of course, I'll let you know if you do.

    Enjoy. I just thought something like this might be fun.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 11-01-2008 at 02:25 PM. Reason: welcoming everyone
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #2
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    What are the odds that someone can convince you not to vote?

  3. #3
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What are the odds that someone can convince you not to vote?
    Good point. There is also a possibility of that, about an equal chance as any other decision.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    I felt like Powell put forth some really good reasons to vote for Obama over McCain in this:

    Powell Endorses Obama - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

  5. #5
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    I felt like Powell put forth some really good reasons to vote for Obama over McCain in this:

    Powell Endorses Obama - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com
    Oh yeah, I just saw that (literally 20 seconds ago) online. Didn't read it yet, because Powell was before my time. But since you've suggested it, I'll look into it. Also I'm taking a Rhetoric class right now, and my professor loves that website, so I should probably read it anyway. We'll probably be discussing it in class.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 10-19-2008 at 06:11 PM. Reason: I'm back
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #6
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Okay, I watched Colin Powell's interview, in which he endorses Obama.

    1. Most of the stuff he says isn't new. I feel like we've heard it all before, but in politics, is that really avoidable anyway?

    2. He used an anecdote at the end--the story of the Muslim-American soldier's grave. In Rhetoric class, we learned that anecdotes are almost always used to stir the audience's emotions, and they are most successful at the end of a point, to get the audience to do what you want (in this case, vote for Obama). Even knowing this though, I've got to admit he picked a good example.

    3. Powell talked mostly about character, influence, attitude, and other personal qualities, rather than policy issues. I tend to focus a lot more on issues, even though I've come to admit that personal attributes are important too. He's not analyzing this in the terms I would, but he makes me wonder whether I should try analyzing it his way...
    Last edited by Cimarron; 10-19-2008 at 08:33 PM. Reason: grammar
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #7
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Obviously, I don't know what issues are important to you, but McCain's record in the Senate is tons longer than Obama's, so you can get a pretty good idea of his patterns of voting and really know what he stands for. Now, obviously if you don't like what he stands for, then that part's not a positive, but either way, the record is on the table, to be taken or left. Obama is much more of a mystery because he has so few years in actual elected office to go on. We can only look at his brief period in the state senate of Illinois, and his less than 4 years in the US Senate (most of which he has spent campaigning for president.)

    McCain was definitely not my first choice, I disagree with the guy on some issues I consider important (his bogus campaign finance "reform" bill, continuing most favored nation trading status for China, continuing to let the Federal Reserve control too much of the economy just to name a few.) However, when I learned in 2004 that Obama had voted against the Infants Born Alive Protection Act while a state senator in Illinois, a bill which passed unanimously in the US Senate, and only served to guarantee that medical care would be provided to babies born alive after failed abortions, I knew I could never support him for any elected office, regardless of who he ran against. Someone that callous, that devoted to a political position over basic human principles, does not deserve to hold the title of President of the United States. Ever. It doesn't mean I would automatically vote for anyone running against Obama, but they'd have to have some serious negatives for me to withhold my vote, rather than do my part to ensure that Obama is not elected.

    I'm not going to be one of those morons who threatens to leave the country if a certain candidate gets elected, but I certainly think it will be a sad day if it happens. My life will go on either way, but I will have a tougher time continuing to tell my son to show respect to the president, when I have such little respect for the person that holds that office.

    McCain, meanwhile, has unquestionable integrity and an amazing fortitude that got him through treatment in Vietnam that most people can't even fathom. I think he can handle anything that arises in the course of being president. And I have no trouble believing he will command the respect of the armed forces, and handle any negotiations that he is a part of with skill and confidence. When I disagree with him on an issue, I'll still say so, just as I've done with our current and past presidents, but I will feel like I can do so still respecting and admiring the man who's serving there, and I will have a much tougher time doing that with Obama in office.

    I hope you enjoy your first "federal-level" election. I love to hear different people's perspectives, so I'd love it if you update on the decisions you come to and how things go.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  8. #8
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    From one Pink Floyd fan to another, McCain is older than paper clips, and his ideas are from a failing regime. He is a republican, backed by the religious right, so that to me means pro-life, more war, and tax cutes for the rich for "economic freedom." I think if you took a few minutes to watch any of the debates, put all preconceived notions at rest if possible, you could really gather a good grasp on each of their characters. Obama is eloquent, collected, a fantastic speaker, and consistent in his politics-which I believe will ACTUALLY be a change from our current government/situation. If you think the man needs experience, he's got a good VP on his backside-and Palin is a total pansey, im not even going there. If you really don't care enough about your vote enough to do a little of your own research (from non biased websites), i suggest you not vote at all. After all...it's all THE MACHINE.

  9. #9
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Obviously, I don't know what issues are important to you, but McCain's record in the Senate is tons longer than Obama's, so you can get a pretty good idea of his patterns of voting and really know what he stands for. Now, obviously if you don't like what he stands for, then that part's not a positive, but either way, the record is on the table, to be taken or left.
    True, very much true. That's what I love about a candidate having a long political career. In a very Si way , you can look at all those past tendencies, and predict that they'll stay more or less in that vein in the future. Are they really going to have a major change-of-heart after all those years, that you wouldn't even see it coming? Well, possible, but not likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster
    Obama is much more of a mystery because he has so few years in actual elected office to go on. We can only look at his brief period in the state senate of Illinois, and his less than 4 years in the US Senate (most of which he has spent campaigning for president.)

    McCain was definitely not my first choice, I disagree with the guy on some issues I consider important (his bogus campaign finance "reform" bill, continuing most favored nation trading status for China, continuing to let the Federal Reserve control too much of the economy just to name a few.) However, when I learned in 2004 that Obama had voted against the Infants Born Alive Protection Act while a state senator in Illinois, a bill which passed unanimously in the US Senate, and only served to guarantee that medical care would be provided to babies born alive after failed abortions, I knew I could never support him for any elected office, regardless of who he ran against. Someone that callous, that devoted to a political position over basic human principles, does not deserve to hold the title of President of the United States. Ever. It doesn't mean I would automatically vote for anyone running against Obama, but they'd have to have some serious negatives for me to withhold my vote, rather than do my part to ensure that Obama is not elected.

    I'm not going to be one of those morons who threatens to leave the country if a certain candidate gets elected, but I certainly think it will be a sad day if it happens.
    I could see how tempting it would sound after such a large-scale election doesn't go your way, but yeah, there's no need to leave the country. And changes usually don't come over our country in a sweeping wave, either. When and if fundamental change happens, it happens over a generation or so. I think the system here in the U.S. is just kind of built like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster
    My life will go on either way, but I will have a tougher time continuing to tell my son to show respect to the president, when I have such little respect for the person that holds that office.

    McCain, meanwhile, has unquestionable integrity and an amazing fortitude that got him through treatment in Vietnam that most people can't even fathom. I think he can handle anything that arises in the course of being president. And I have no trouble believing he will command the respect of the armed forces, and handle any negotiations that he is a part of with skill and confidence. When I disagree with him on an issue, I'll still say so, just as I've done with our current and past presidents, but I will feel like I can do so still respecting and admiring the man who's serving there, and I will have a much tougher time doing that with Obama in office.
    I see what you're saying about McCain's POW ordeal. Kind of a "If he can make it through that, I have pretty good faith that he can handle anything". Usually, I hear people talk about it in the opposite way. So thanks for that, that actually was a new perspective for me. It's implied in some Republican slogans and ads, but never really gets to the heart of it.

    * I'm not sure where you were coming from with the Obama part at the end... Did you mean because he lacks that skill that you were talking about? Or basically because of things like the Infants Born Alive Protection Act? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster
    I hope you enjoy your first "federal-level" election. I love to hear different people's perspectives, so I'd love it if you update on the decisions you come to and how things go.
    Well, I hate that every Four Years we see grown-ups bickering and yelling like children again. But I understand that it is an important process, so I kind of let it slide.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by naymornings
    From one Pink Floyd fan to another, McCain is older than paper clips, and his ideas are from a failing regime. He is a republican, backed by the religious right, so that to me means pro-life, more war, and tax cutes for the rich for "economic freedom."
    To me, it means whether or not he actually believes in those things, he will support them, because he's the Republican nominee now and he is expected to represent all Republicans. So, in effect, yes, unless he's the kind of guy that will do things his own way once elected. Do you think he's that kind of guy? His reputation says so, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by naymornings
    I think if you took a few minutes to watch any of the debates, put all preconceived notions at rest if possible, you could really gather a good grasp on each of their characters. Obama is eloquent, collected, a fantastic speaker, and consistent in his politics-which I believe will ACTUALLY be a change from our current government/situation. If you think the man needs experience, he's got a good VP on his backside-and Palin is a total pansey, im not even going there.
    I think one thing you can say about Biden, as with McCain, is that he definitely knows what he's doing. I've liked Biden's style, and he was so well-suited for the Democratic nomination that I was surprised he was never given more consideration in the primaries. I guess he wasn't popular enough...?
    Quote Originally Posted by naymornings
    If you really don't care about your vote enough to do a little of your own research (from non biased websites), i suggest you not vote at all. After all...it's all THE MACHINE.
    Oh no, I hope you don't misunderstand me. I've kept myself up with most info, so I'm aware of what I'm choosing. In fact, I was old enough to vote in 2006 for House Representative and other things, but I was aware that I knew nothing about politics or the politicians' positions. I abstained from voting because I figured it would be irresponsible to vote uninformed that way.

    But I can't decide which one is actually better. I have over time kind of chosen what I want to do, but I'm really unsure about my choice, so I can be persuaded.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 10-20-2008 at 02:56 AM. Reason: getting everything
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 6sticks's Avatar
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    There's no reason to limit yourself to two choices. It's not like your individual vote matters at all, so you might as well consider all options when choosing someone to run your country.
    No offense.

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