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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default S and disbelief of concepts?

    Sometimes I see people argue that a particular concept "doesn't exist", as a concept is an abstraction over the whole, but all there is to a whole is it's parts.

    This position is best described as reductionism, some of which is greedy.

    I'm not sure if this disbelief of concepts is really tied to one's use of S function. Continuum fallacy is something similar. People argue that a phenomenon exists in a continuum, like amount of hair on someone's head. It's arbitrary decision to draw the line between a bald man and someone having hair, so they argue it's a poor concept, and shouldn't be used at all.

    I've also seen somewhat similar argument, telling that there's no instance of a perfect capitalism in the world, and no instance of perfect communism has ever occured, so there's no communism or capitalism at all.

    This "no concepts" belief pleases some people. Disbelievers often point out that the concepts aren't as readily verifiable, they've been made arbitrarily, could be done in a different way, or they don't otherwise satisfy their arbitrary ( !!! ) criteria.

    Is this group the S group?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about here... to clarify, if I tell you an example of something that's popped into my head on reading your OP, could you tell me if it's along the lines of what you were thinking?

    My friend D tends to believe that something having been unsuccessfully applied means that the idea itself was flawed or not valid. For example, if I suggest going to the cinema with friends as a way to cheer yourself up when you're down, and he goes to the cinema to see a crappy movie with some people he's not really keen on, these subtleties seem to pass him by and he'll just be happy to state in future, if I suggest it again, "No, I tried it and it didn't work, I just felt even worse" - in his mind now, going to the cinema with friends is NOT a feasible way to cheer yourself up if you're feeling down. I'd have my work cut out to try to convince him that it wasn't the idea that was at fault, but his execution of it, and that, executed differently, the idea could still work.

    Is that the sort of thing you mean?
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  3. #3
    Senior Member ArbiterDewey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Sometimes I see people argue that a particular concept "doesn't exist", as a concept is an abstraction over the whole, but all there is to a whole is it's parts.

    This position is best described as reductionism, some of which is greedy.

    I'm not sure if this disbelief of concepts is really tied to one's use of S function. Continuum fallacy is something similar. People argue that a phenomenon exists in a continuum, like amount of hair on someone's head. It's arbitrary decision to draw the line between a bald man and someone having hair, so they argue it's a poor concept, and shouldn't be used at all.

    I've also seen somewhat similar argument, telling that there's no instance of a perfect capitalism in the world, and no instance of perfect communism has ever occured, so there's no communism or capitalism at all.

    This "no concepts" belief pleases some people. Disbelievers often point out that the concepts aren't as readily verifiable, they've been made arbitrarily, could be done in a different way, or they don't otherwise satisfy their arbitrary ( !!! ) criteria.

    Is this group the S group?
    Read the links and, honestly, I'm not identifying at all. Sorry
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  4. #4
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Is that the sort of thing you mean?
    You're talking about a parallel subject, disbelief of theory.
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  5. #5
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    The kind of "no concepts" talk I'm thinking goes like this:

    "What is this talk about someone being 'fashionable'? Someone liking some new stuff? I'm arguing that this new stuff has existed before in some form. Is fashion something that's being liked by many people? Well, people can change their minds, so what's fashionable at one time, isn't fashionable at other time. What's such a concept that changes as people change their minds? So, there's no such thing as fashion."

    Simpler examples include statements such as "there's no temperature, it's just movement of atoms" and "there's no justice, there's just people getting punished or not".
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  6. #6
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Hmmm....I'm not sure. I understand what you're talking about when you explain reductionism and the continuum fallacy (is there anything that can't be classified as a fallacy? ), since I've seen them in action before. I can't decide whether I'm prone to believing/making them or not, I'd have to think about it more, and try to remember past arguments and debates.

    So for now, unsure.

    Edit: Oh, the "it's all relative" catchphrase. Yeah, I like using that one. But then, I also often say "you've got to put the boundaries somewhere". So maybe it could be both.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 10-13-2008 at 08:21 AM. Reason: good examples
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  7. #7
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    (is there anything that can't be classified as a fallacy? )
    But.. but.. it's one of my favorite concepts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Edit: Oh, the "it's all relative" catchphrase. Yeah, I like using that one.
    Uhh I hate it ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    But then, I also often say "you've got to put the boundaries somewhere".
    I'm an advocate of this
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  8. #8
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    More often than not, it probably depends on which side of the argument I'm sitting. You know what I mean? Whichever would help break the other person's argument.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #9
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    More often than not, it probably depends on which side of the argument I'm sitting. You know what I mean? Whichever would help break the other person's argument.
    Ooh disbelief tactic, or one of ignorance. That's a hard one, I think I often fall for that. It's easy for me to believe people are dumb and can't grasp the concepts..
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  10. #10
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you're wanting, but I'm guessing. My room mate believes certain things and even if you present her with logical fallacies/and or evidence against of what she believes on a topic she refuses to change her mind. This is what happened one time, therefore this is right, any evidence against that is wrong.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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