[ISTJ] Understanding Male ISTJ Minds

[hermeticdancer]

I don't want to be a dick since I don't really know the whole situation, but this is what I see.

He's attracted to you, but too insecure to really do anything.
You're attracted to him because he's not doing anything (inadvertently teasing you)

Very true. That's why I gotta love INTJs. (their minds anyway!)

 

[Totenkindly]

I have had a hard time with my ISTJ bf.
He doesn't understand me, and has admitted it over and over. He claims that he is simple and that he doesn't need to be analyzed to understand, that he's very basic. Perhaps it's true, which is the scary part.

That might be something. Maybe he actually is very straight-forward but N's complicate things unnecessarily.

I just have trouble connecting to him emotionally, and I feel like I have to coach him, and that is emotionally exhausting. I feel like I don't get the feedback that I need, and that he is not interested in my feelings. Which is probably true. So this leaves me to think the worst.

That sounds realistic too. It's not that he doesn't care, but you both do not speak the same language.

So he doesn't give you the cues you need to know he cares. ANd he doesn't know he's not. Nor could he figure them out easily on his own.

I just remembered that this guy also said a few times that he did not like girls who "created drama." I said I wasn't a drama creator, but I'm wondering how severe now his idea of "drama" is -- basically a woman asking him for cues that he doesn't understand? Is that drama to him? Hmm....

The fights are the worst though, when he goes from being nice, to an outburst of anger and starts catastrophizing about everything, you would think it was armageddon. I actially dont find him to be calm and stable at all. Maybe half the time, but I see an angery insecure person, who wants secruity, and I am the one who is providing it.

Possibly. Except he might see you as the one who destabilized it all to start with. Because you don't play by the rules he sees as rational.

That Ne inferior is very wicked for untrained ISTJs and ISFJs. They can start projecting wildly and have lots of paranoid ideas about what might happen, rather than more plausible iNtuitions.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I was still thinking in terms of me and not in terms of ENFP when I was responding, and so maybe I was not addressing ENFP-oriented issues.

 

[hermeticdancer]

I think there is a lust thing going on between ISTJ's and ENFPs. There are a lot of pheromones flying around, and the sex is good. I think that's the attraction. ISTJ men are sexy, and usually handsome because they are clean and they usually take care of their appearance.
I just don't know about long term compatibility when things get serious. (sorry to wander off message)
Anybody want to talk me down?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

It seems like he is stalling because all of his past experience with girls have gotten mad at all of this time being occupied....
Sometimes ISTJs need to quit relying on the past and just TRY something new Not every situation is the same

 

[Jack Flak]

It seems like he is stalling because all of his past experience with girls have gotten mad at all of this time being occupied....
Sometimes ISTJs need to quit relying on the past and just TRY something new Not every situation is the same

Says the ENFP! Clockwork.

 

[hermeticdancer]

That Ne inferior is very wicked for untrained ISTJs and ISFJs. They can start projecting wildly and have lots of paranoid ideas about what might happen, rather than more plausible iNtuitions.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I was still thinking in terms of me and not in terms of ENFP when I was responding, and so maybe I was not addressing ENFP-oriented issues.

No offense taken, actually, your feedback is helpful. I get what you are saying.

Im just trying to develop the issues, and of course, inject my personal problems into the conversation.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Says the ENFP! Clockwork.

Haha I know it's typical for me to think this way.. haha, I really just cant understand ISTJs

 

[INTJMom]

...
So I haven’t brought up dating to him in nearly 5 or 6 months so 2 days ago, he brought it up. He explained to me that he works a lot (which he does, about 4 jobs…crazy) and he is about to buy a home. But that he wants to date me, and can’t see where in the long run how I will tolerate for very long his crazy schedule. And based on his past relationships the women end up resenting him because of it.

It’s pretty rare that he shares any thoughts or feelings beyond surface emotion so I was caught off guard and didn’t say much.

Today, I brought it up again, because not to kill a dead horse, but I felt as if we didn’t really finish the conversation…I asked him what he wanted, or what the ideal dating situation for him would be… and he said well I’ve dealt with this before and women all say the same thing but you all end up hating me because I don’t have time. And basically I told him that I understand what he’s telling me and I have been waiting for him for 10 months and I want to at least try it, or I can wait, or I can move on.
...

Quoting the right parts this time.
This is what I see:
He's saying his schedule is busy - and as Jennifer so eloquently described - I believe he's stuck in his way of doing things, and is saying he wouldn't change his schedule for anyone. He doesn't want to be asked or expected to change it.

You have to decide if you are willing to be an appendage in his life.
There's a saying - "Women marry a guy hoping he will change, men marry a gal hoping she won't change. Not that you're talking about marriage, but I'm just pointing out the "secretly hoping he changes" kind of thinking, just in case. It usually doesn't work.

The other thing is what you said about being willing to move on.
He doesn't sound like someone you can't live without. Perhaps you'd be a lot happier with someone who delights your heart so incredibly that you just couldn't imagine living without him.

I certainly understand, though, why you would be attracted to him.
I know of many happy INFP/ISTJ couples.

 

[Cimarron]

Sometimes ISTJs need to quit relying on the past and just TRY something new

No U!

The situation Hermit's describing sounds like an ISTJ with some problems he needs to sort through first. (And Jennifer: Aha, so that is how Ne works! I thought so, and this helps with the other threads I've been keeping an eye on...)

I had an ENFP girlfriend one time, and she was a lot of fun to spend time with, but she could be very frustrating and exhausting. It didn't last long, in my case.

 

[hermeticdancer]

No U!



I had an ENFP girlfriend one time, and she was a lot of fun to spend time with, but she could be very frustrating and exhausting. It didn't last long, in my case.

Cimarron,

What types do you find attractive personally?

Just curious, as Im studying psychology and Im interested in people's personality's, and relationships.

Thanks

 

[Cimarron]

You mean by coincidence? Or you mean first considering all the personality types, which would I prefer/be attracted to, as a general rule?

 

[Rachelinpa]

I am reminded of my ISTJ roommate and his decision-making, including those regarding romantic relationships.

I often ask ISTJ-roommate (with great enthusiasm), "What are you waiting for?!!" And he says (in a dry matter-of-fact tone), "I don't know. It's pending." "Hmm... you have a lot of pending matters, it seems," I say.

Truth is, I am not bothered by his deceleration unless I am directly affected by the awaited decision. In fact, our dialogue kind of entertains me.

Sometimes I can convince ISTJ to take a deadline in less pressure-filled situations like switching the cable or continuing our Blockbuster subscription. Usually though, as others have pointed out, he stubbornly works on his own timetable. My theory is he primarily waits because he can only concentrate on one monumental task at a time (which a relationship certainly is).

Anyway, he took months to tell this girl he wanted to date her. And, it's not like he didn't have the opportunity or that he was afraid to be vulnerable. He just waited. And waited. And waited. For what seemed to be eternal and for no apparent reason. He would come home and sheepishly admit, "Rach, you're going to be disappointed in me... I didn't tell her."

I don't know what we're waiting on when this happens, but like I said, it's that commitment when we aren't set that makes us feel uneasy.

The reason for waiting is mostly inexplicable, but it does seem to be a trend.

 

[PinkIceTD]

PinkIce, what was the reason given behind his initial "no" answer? Was it his busy schedule or was there even one stated?

Does he give any signs ever that suggest he has more than friendly feelings toward you? Needless to say, I bet he feels fortunate to have you in his life. One of my best friends is a female ENFP. You guys rock and bring a good element in an ISTJ relationship. Kind of like sunshine .

Commitment can be hard when it comes to romantic interest. I guess we want to make sure all our ducks are lined up and that things aren't going to go to shit. We're cautious and very analytical typically. As for his situation, I really don't know though. It could be anything...

At first he didn't give any reason just no. The one day I was talking to him and I asked if he wanted to hang out with me and some of my friends but he knows them too so I thought maybe it would be so much pressure and he said i can't i have to work. THen he was like. Unless you like punishment, I don't think you want me because I'm always working.

Yes he does show interest in me further than friendship. He told me that when he does decide to start dating again that he isn't dating casually, that it will be seriously and eventually a wife. I'm 25 and he's 29 so he asks me alot about what I want as far as relationships, he asks alot about marriage( as far as when ,what kind of house I want, etc), we talk about sex (haven't done it together).

So, I don't think men would ask those type of questions if they weren't interested...

 

[PinkIceTD]

I had this ISTJ guy interested in me recently.

He was really good at talking on the phone.
He was courteous and respectful and polite.
He was thoughtful and intelligent and articulate.
He didn't want to impose.
And he was willing to talk just about any subject.

I did notice on the phone that he would give me advice --

Wow, that sounds like you actually know my friend...

He consistently would refer to things I did as, "Wow, that just sounds like too much energy."

He definitely had a set schedule. I asked him to meet me for coffee on a Monday evening, and despite being single and having nothing else to do, he just said he doesn't do things during the week, that's not his schedule, even if on the weekends he'll stay up until 3am commonly. There were other things too that were similar (i.e., he had no LOGICAL reason to not do them, they just did not conform to his chosen schedule).

So that's what I noticed: He was a very sweet, very respectful, very considerate guy who also kept a fairly neat house and had things basically in their place... but he did not like to have things moved out of the place he had put them in. He had created his world and did not want it to be modified, although he wasn't rude about it.

I bet he'd be utterly faithful, utterly responsible, utterly kind. But he didn't really like risk, he didn't really like expending energy, and he didn't really like change. And he wasn't really happy about the last gf, who had decided she wanted someone more active; he was disparaging of her choices, although when he told me, I was thinking, "hmm, I can understand why she did that."

This is my first time dealing with an ISTJ period and I know that in the end people are people, but are these kind of characteristics universal, because that sound exactly like my friend. IT's a bit scary.

 

[Salomé]

I am reminded of my ISTJ roommate and his decision-making, including those regarding romantic relationships.

Anyway, he took months to tell this girl he wanted to date her. And, it's not like he didn't have the opportunity or that he was afraid to be vulnerable. He just waited. And waited. And waited. For what seemed to be eternal and for no apparent reason. He would come home and sheepishly admit, "Rach, you're going to be disappointed in me... I didn't tell her."

The reason for waiting is mostly inexplicable, but it does seem to be a trend.

Umhmm. I had one like this once. They can be v. perverse. We were living together in the same hotel whilst working in the States. We got on really well and 'cos we didn't really know other people locally spent a lot of time together, drinking and baring our souls. But if I initiated things - asking him to hang out, go out to dinner, whatever, the more important it was to me, the less he was prepared to do it. Plus, he would always blow me off for Seinfield or The Simpsons. When I was in two minds about coming back home, everyone else told me they wanted me to stay, except him. And his was the only opinion that really mattered. I figured he wasn't into me at all. Then I left to go back home and he was in pieces. He told me later he didn't think he was good enough for me. Silly boy.

 

[PinkIceTD]

What is the point of trying to guess what he is saying? You should be able to ask him. Let him know what helps you, and what action he can take...coach him on how to give feedback you need. (good luck with that)
He sounds highly introverted, and like a workaholic. If this kind of pattern continues (you wanting to emotional support, and openness, and him going into retreat and silence) it will become very frustrating for you. Two people should be able to understand each other and support each other in a relationship. You have to understand him, and he you, and except eachother for it to work. He is private, take time alone to think, and doesn't like to make decisions based on emotion. You want immediate dialogue, openness, emotional support and feedback. It will feel like he is putting you on the back burner unsure about the relationship, working all the time and his focus is on HIMSELF. He is confused how to communicate with you and what you want. As others have said, take him at his word.
In some respects it takes a lot of emotional energy and reserve to talk to an ENFP, and his approach is to listen to what you have to say, and then try and fix it. If he starts wanting to fix all your 'problems' then you'll know he's really into you.

I knew this was coming from an ENFP before I looked based on the first sentence alone. That is EXACTLY the way I feel. I want him to TALK and just TELL me is going on. BUt I know that isn't happening...but I take in everything that people have to say and it's interesting hearing what the ISTJs are saying.

I only feel sometimes like I'm putting so much effort into understanding his feelings or thoughts or whatever and not getting the results as quickly as I want them.

 

[PinkIceTD]

The OP never really said whether or not she would begin to resent him if they were together for having little time for her and such a busy work schedule and for planning things so much. I think that is what he wants to know.

No actually I would not.

And I've told him that, but I don't think words count as much as my actions do with him.

 

[PinkIceTD]

Very true. That's why I gotta love INTJs. (their minds anyway!)

I saw that and I agree too...sadly

 

[hermeticdancer]

You mean by coincidence? Or you mean first considering all the personality types, which would I prefer/be attracted to, as a general rule?

Yes, considering all the personality types, which would you prefer/be attracted to, as a general rule?

Do you prefer thinking types? Sensing types, do you like intuitives?

For example:
I've noticed as an ENFP/ENTP female that I enjoy thinking types that are introverted slightly. Someone who is too extroverted or too feeling doesnt appeal to me, in a relationship, maybe for a friend.

 

[PinkIceTD]

It seems like he is stalling because all of his past experience with girls have gotten mad at all of this time being occupied....
Sometimes ISTJs need to quit relying on the past and just TRY something new Not every situation is the same

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.