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[ISTJ] Understanding Male ISTJ Minds

PinkIceTD

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Aug 9, 2008
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299
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So I am an ENFP female, and I have this ISTJ friend that I feel strongly attracted to.

I’ve been friends with him for about 10 months now and I have learned so much about him in that time. First, he is so structured to the point of annoyance. He plans everything, including fun. For the most part I really admire this about him because as I’m more “go with the flow” and he must have a plan and I think that makes him focused. So, I admire that.

What I am attracted to most in him is that he is complete opposite of me yet we have similar interests and goals on nearly every level.

Anyway, almost right away, I was ready to date him and I approached him. He said “no” and nothing else. So, I backed off a little and just started talking to him a little every day and I learned that he isn’t going to do ANYTHING that he doesn’t think about and come to a conclusion about on his own, but when he does he shows up fully. He is a man of his word.

So I haven’t brought up dating to him in nearly 5 or 6 months so 2 days ago, he brought it up. He explained to me that he works a lot (which he does, about 4 jobs…crazy) and he is about to buy a home. But that he wants to date me, and can’t see where in the long run how I will tolerate for very long his crazy schedule. And based on his past relationships the women end up resenting him because of it.

It’s pretty rare that he shares any thoughts or feelings beyond surface emotion so I was caught off guard and didn’t say much.

Today, I brought it up again, because not to kill a dead horse, but I felt as if we didn’t really finish the conversation…I asked him what he wanted, or what the ideal dating situation for him would be… and he said well I’ve dealt with this before and women all say the same thing but you all end up hating me because I don’t have time. And basically I told him that I understand what he’s telling me and I have been waiting for him for 10 months and I want to at least try it, or I can wait, or I can move on.

He said nothing expect, I have to go, but have a good night and I’ll talk to you later. And I was already pretty nervous having this convo with him, and when he said that I got flustered and said ok later…

So now I’m confused. I think he wants to think about what I said and come to me on some later date with his answer, but I don’t understand… was he nervous, or did I make him uncomfortable with my openness, or did he just not care?

Obviously as an ENFP, my thought process or the way I perceive him may be totally wrong. How can I better understand this ISTJ male?
 

Metamorphosis

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I don't want to be a dick since I don't really know the whole situation, but this is what I see.

He's attracted to you, but too insecure to really do anything.
You're attracted to him because he's not doing anything (inadvertently teasing you)
 

ArbiterDewey

New member
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Feb 3, 2008
Messages
310
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ISTJ
So I am an ENFP female, and I have this ISTJ friend that I feel strongly attracted to.

I’ve been friends with him for about 10 months now and I have learned so much about him in that time. First, he is so structured to the point of annoyance. He plans everything, including fun. For the most part I really admire this about him because as I’m more “go with the flow” and he must have a plan and I think that makes him focused. So, I admire that.

What I am attracted to most in him is that he is complete opposite of me yet we have similar interests and goals on nearly every level.

Anyway, almost right away, I was ready to date him and I approached him. He said “no” and nothing else. So, I backed off a little and just started talking to him a little every day and I learned that he isn’t going to do ANYTHING that he doesn’t think about and come to a conclusion about on his own, but when he does he shows up fully. He is a man of his word.

Yes.

PinkIceTD said:
So I haven’t brought up dating to him in nearly 5 or 6 months so 2 days ago, he brought it up. He explained to me that he works a lot (which he does, about 4 jobs…crazy) and he is about to buy a home. But that he wants to date me, and can’t see where in the long run how I will tolerate for very long his crazy schedule. And based on his past relationships the women end up resenting him because of it.

It’s pretty rare that he shares any thoughts or feelings beyond surface emotion so I was caught off guard and didn’t say much.

Today, I brought it up again, because not to kill a dead horse, but I felt as if we didn’t really finish the conversation…I asked him what he wanted, or what the ideal dating situation for him would be… and he said well I’ve dealt with this before and women all say the same thing but you all end up hating me because I don’t have time. And basically I told him that I understand what he’s telling me and I have been waiting for him for 10 months and I want to at least try it, or I can wait, or I can move on.

He said nothing expect, I have to go, but have a good night and I’ll talk to you later. And I was already pretty nervous having this convo with him, and when he said that I got flustered and said ok later…

So now I’m confused. I think he wants to think about what I said and come to me on some later date with his answer, but I don’t understand… was he nervous, or did I make him uncomfortable with my openness, or did he just not care?

Obviously as an ENFP, my thought process or the way I perceive him may be totally wrong. How can I better understand this ISTJ male?

I think you've got the right idea. I say definitely give it some time. It shouldn't take him anywhere near another half year, but I think he'll get back to you with his thoughts in a reasonable manner. Depending on how you came back to the conversation may have been emotionally hard on him or spiked his emotions to uncomfortable levels, thus his quick exit to calm down or celebrate in secret, lol.
 

batumi

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Jan 31, 2008
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177
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infj
Ok you have my full attention and then some. Your post is soooo familiar to me in so many ways. He will talk with you later about it. On his time schedule. And I think if you date this man you should expect things to move very slowly for some time.
And oh let me see, there are some good tips on this board for dealing with this type.
I found them to be quite handy actually.
Good luck and contact me anytime if you want to talk more. I am six months into the most fascinating relationship I have ever experienced with an ISTJ man.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
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ArbiterDewey already covered good points.

So now I’m confused. I think he wants to think about what I said and come to me on some later date with his answer, but I don’t understand… was he nervous, or did I make him uncomfortable with my openness, or did he just not care?
Hard to tell if he cares, but I think you made a good observation that he went out of his way to share his feelings with you. Now, depending on how you brought this topic back up, you might have surprised him. :blush: If you just switched to it too suddenly, he was probably not ready for it...

If he has feelings for you, it was probably completely out of nervousness. First thing is just to let him think things through, I would say.

Edit: As Batumi says, don't expect this relationship to move quickly. But that doesn't mean he doesn't care about you! :) (You know, if things get that far.)
 
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swordpath

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PinkIce, what was the reason given behind his initial "no" answer? Was it his busy schedule or was there even one stated?

Does he give any signs ever that suggest he has more than friendly feelings toward you? Needless to say, I bet he feels fortunate to have you in his life. One of my best friends is a female ENFP. You guys rock and bring a good element in an ISTJ relationship. Kind of like sunshine :D.

Commitment can be hard when it comes to romantic interest. I guess we want to make sure all our ducks are lined up and that things aren't going to go to shit. We're cautious and very analytical typically. As for his situation, I really don't know though. It could be anything...
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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I can relate to you here. I'm currently in a 'stall pattern' with an ISTJ. We've been friends for a year and a half, worked together for much of that time, and eventually I ended up developing feelings for him. I'd read some tentative 'I'm interested' vibes from him on occasion but the first time the idea of dating came up he responded with a 'let time decide' kind of answer.

As a J, it seems that the whole 'leave it up in the air' thing would have been frustrating for him (I know it was for me) but he seemed to be very at peace with the idea. In work aspects, he's very decisive and quick to make things happen, but on a personal level he's very skittish.
 

swordpath

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I totally fed this to my ex-gf a lot. The "I don't know where things are going, time will tell" sort of thing. I frustrated the hell out her... :/

I don't know what we're waiting on when this happens, but like I said, it's that commitment when we aren't set that makes us feel uneasy.

PinkIce, it could just be that he is legitimately busy and doesn't want to make a commitment when he fears that it won't work out in the long run. I can be a cop out myself in a few areas in life, where if I'm not confident in the success of something, I'll just throw it out or put it off.
 

INTJMom

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...
So now I’m confused. I think he wants to think about what I said and come to me on some later date with his answer, but I don’t understand… was he nervous, or did I make him uncomfortable with my openness, or did he just not care?

Obviously as an ENFP, my thought process or the way I perceive him may be totally wrong. How can I better understand this ISTJ male?
He's saying he's not planning on making time for you in his schedule.
 

Penguin

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i really do believe him when he said what he did, and it seems a typical ISTJ thing, and I am pretty certain that he will do as much as possible to make an eventual relationship work
good luck with it:), ISTJ's are really great people if you know how to handle them
 

Giggly

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He's saying he's not planning on making time for you in his schedule.

If it were me, I would take it this way too. This is what he said literally and I would not assume anything else.
 

Cimarron

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If it were me, I would take it this way too. This is what he said literally and I would not assume anything else.
Hmm...then how come all the male ISTJs just missed that? That is strange.
 

Totenkindly

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I had this ISTJ guy interested in me recently.

He was really good at talking on the phone.
He was courteous and respectful and polite.
He was thoughtful and intelligent and articulate.
He didn't want to impose.
And he was willing to talk just about any subject.

I did notice on the phone that he would give me advice -- like when I told him I had hurt my foot, and he told me I should really see a doctor, etc. etc.
That partly felt nice to have him look out for me, but it also felt somewhat patronizing because I am fully capable of deciding whether or not to see a doctor and I felt like he was admonishing me a little bit.

What happened the one time we tried to get together, though, is that he had his set ways of doing things and the sort of life he wanted to lead, and I realized very quickly that he was set in those ways and did not want to budge.
He was very happy having his own little pocket world, his own little house by himself, and he might include someone from the outside who he liked, to come in, but he controlled the environment and had made it just the way he liked it, and any time I inadvertently bumped up against those boundaries, he put the fix on it.

He consistently would refer to things I did as, "Wow, that just sounds like too much energy."

He definitely had a set schedule. I asked him to meet me for coffee on a Monday evening, and despite being single and having nothing else to do, he just said he doesn't do things during the week, that's not his schedule, even if on the weekends he'll stay up until 3am commonly. There were other things too that were similar (i.e., he had no LOGICAL reason to not do them, they just did not conform to his chosen schedule).

So that's what I noticed: He was a very sweet, very respectful, very considerate guy who also kept a fairly neat house and had things basically in their place... but he did not like to have things moved out of the place he had put them in. He had created his world and did not want it to be modified, although he wasn't rude about it.

I bet he'd be utterly faithful, utterly responsible, utterly kind. But he didn't really like risk, he didn't really like expending energy, and he didn't really like change. And he wasn't really happy about the last gf, who had decided she wanted someone more active; he was disparaging of her choices, although when he told me, I was thinking, "hmm, I can understand why she did that."
 

Cimarron

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Are you male too?
Haha, yeah.

Jennifer said:
I bet he'd be utterly faithful, utterly responsible, utterly kind. But he didn't really like risk, he didn't really like expending energy, and he didn't really like change. And he wasn't really happy about the last gf, who had decided she wanted someone more active; he was disparaging of her choices, although when he told me, I was thinking, "hmm, I can understand why she did that."
Yeah, that whole post was a good analysis, of strong points and of potential relationship flaws. The part I quoted has been very true in my experience. He may have tried harder to compromise, but it would've been uncomfortable for him to even try, I bet.
 
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Giggly

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Well see, the thing is, he explained that he's been through this a few times in the past with other women, so if it were me, I would think why would it be any different with me? If I were emotionally capable of it, I would be his friend though because he seems to still want/need that.
 

Totenkindly

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... The part I quoted has been very true in my experience. He may have tried harder to compromise, but it would've been uncomfortable for him to even try, I bet.

Yes, and that is the thing: Is it WORTH that much investment for at least one of the partners to deal with so much discomfort in a LTR? Each person must decide that for themselves, but in general, I don't think it is.

...He said nothing expect, I have to go, but have a good night and I’ll talk to you later. And I was already pretty nervous having this convo with him, and when he said that I got flustered and said ok later…

That part made me laugh -- the last conversation I had with this guy, I called him at the start of a 2hr car ride to talk, and he said, "Uh, I'm ordering a pizza online," and he ended up hanging up within 30 seconds and never called me back. (I was like, wth??? The last two conversations we had, we had talked for hours.)

I definitely felt like I was breaking his style.

Because I know that if I wanted to talk to someone but was ordering a pizza, I'd say, "Hey, can I call you back in a minute after I order this pizza?"

He just ended the whole conversation.
Alas.
More love's labours lost.

I find it really funny now, though.

anyway, I agree with the consensus: He was basically saying, "I've heard this before, and apparently how I interact with you, you always want more than I can give, and I'm not going to change, so let's not waste our time."
 

hermeticdancer

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What is the point of trying to guess what he is saying? You should be able to ask him. Let him know what helps you, and what action he can take...coach him on how to give feedback you need. (good luck with that)
He sounds highly introverted, and like a workaholic. If this kind of pattern continues (you wanting to emotional support, and openness, and him going into retreat and silence) it will become very frustrating for you. Two people should be able to understand each other and support each other in a relationship. You have to understand him, and he you, and except eachother for it to work. He is private, take time alone to think, and doesn't like to make decisions based on emotion. You want immediate dialogue, openness, emotional support and feedback. It will feel like he is putting you on the back burner unsure about the relationship, working all the time and his focus is on HIMSELF. He is confused how to communicate with you and what you want. As others have said, take him at his word.
In some respects it takes a lot of emotional energy and reserve to talk to an ENFP, and his approach is to listen to what you have to say, and then try and fix it. If he starts wanting to fix all your 'problems' then you'll know he's really into you.
 

Giggly

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The OP never really said whether or not she would begin to resent him if they were together for having little time for her and such a busy work schedule and for planning things so much. I think that is what he wants to know.
 

hermeticdancer

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I have had a hard time with my ISTJ bf.
He doesn't understand me, and has admitted it over and over. He claims that he is simple and that he doesn't need to be analyzed to understand, that he's very basic. Perhaps it's true, which is the scary part.

I just have trouble connecting to him emotionally, and I feel like I have to coach him, and that is emotionally exhausting. I feel like I don't get the feedback that I need, and that he is not interested in my feelings. Which is probably true. So this leaves me to think the worst.
The fights are the worst though, when he goes from being nice, to an outburst of anger and starts catastrophizing about everything, you would think it was armageddon. I actially dont find him to be calm and stable at all. Maybe half the time, but I see an angery insecure person, who wants secruity, and I am the one who is providing it.
I dont feel like he is the Rock at all...
Not all ISTJs are alike, though, which I understand.
 
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