[ISTJ] Understanding Male ISTJ Minds

[Rachelinpa]

I feel like this will be one of the costs for you (in the relationship) going forward if you guys ended up dating. I think it definitely depends on how much you value being understood, but it seems you are frustrated with the lack of open communication already and you aren't even dating yet! Maybe part of his hesitation to jump in is related to your understandable differences.

For me, ENFP, I often feel emotional understanding is vital. I don't know if I could survive without it. As much as I adore the ISTJ faithfulness, stability, friendly face to the world and caretaking abilities, I think the lack of emotional understanding would make me miserable. I flip-flop though. I like both sets of qualities. I WANT THEM ALL. Ha.

And, don't get me wrong, I'm all for differences cause I think it can make your relationship stronger, but at the same time...

Just a thought.

 

[INTJMom]

... I don't think words count as much as my actions do with him.

You are exactly right.

 

[hermeticdancer]

PinkIced tea,
You sound really understanding of him and the way he is, really flexible and really accommodating. It's hard being with your opposite.

Isn't it hard to not want to change him, and just accept him as he is?

My thing is that I want my ISTJ bf to relax, Ive noticed he has a hard time,
I want for him to:
*Relax
*validate my feelings
*be present more

 

[hermeticdancer]

For me, ENFP, I often feel emotional understanding is vital. I don't know if I could survive without it. As much as I adore the ISTJ faithfulness, stability, friendly face to the world and caretaking abilities, I think the lack of emotional understanding would make me miserable.
Just a thought.

So true.

 

[PinkIceTD]

PinkIced tea,
You sound really understanding of him and the way he is, really flexible and really accommodating. It's hard being with your opposite.

Isn't it hard to not want to change him, and just accept him as he is?

My thing is that I want my ISTJ bf to relax, Ive noticed he has a hard time,
I want for him to:
*Relax
*validate my feelings
*be present more

Well yeah at first, it was like we were clashing all the time because he wouldn't talk and he said I asked too many questions lol...so I thought instead of us both being stubborn, I tried to think as he does...and while I don't agree with it, its easier for me to understand where he's coming from. Or that for him to know what I want, giving him emotional cues will get us no where because he just isn't going to pick up on it. He takes me very literal, like sometimes I can be sarcastic and he not get it right away and take what I say literally.

So, I learned to always say what I mean with him. He is learning to understand my humor and me more, I think. I just feel like the way I learned to deal with him so quickly, he isn't going to learn the same with me because he isn't an NF. But he is learning.

I don't want him to change at all, I've learned alot from him, and I like him the way he is. But yeah I think he needs to relax and be present more def.

 

[ArbiterDewey]

it seems you are frustrated with the lack of open communication already and you aren't even dating yet!

I really depends how you approach the communication. I'm having a problem with my g/f, type unknown E?F?. She always starts up conversation with an emotional question/remark that sparks my emotions, but drains my energy. It's like, "We just started this conversation, couldn't we work into emotions slower? It's time for breakfast, damnit." lol

For me, ENFP, I often feel emotional understanding is vital. I don't know if I could survive without it. As much as I adore the ISTJ faithfulness, stability, friendly face to the world and caretaking abilities, I think the lack of emotional understanding would make me miserable. I flip-flop though. I like both sets of qualities. I WANT THEM ALL. Ha.

We really have no idea what we're missing half of the time.

 

[PinkIceTD]

I really depends how you approach the communication. I'm having a problem with my g/f, type unknown E?F?. She always starts up conversation with an emotional question/remark that sparks my emotions, but drains my energy. It's like, "We just started this conversation, couldn't we work into emotions slower? It's time for breakfast, damnit." lol

Yeah...I knw I do that too. I really don't know any other way to start a conversation.

 

[Bella]

Well yeah at first, it was like we were clashing all the time because he wouldn't talk and he said I asked too many questions lol...so I thought instead of us both being stubborn, I tried to think as he does...and while I don't agree with it, its easier for me to understand where he's coming from. Or that for him to know what I want, giving him emotional cues will get us no where because he just isn't going to pick up on it. He takes me very literal, like sometimes I can be sarcastic and he not get it right away and take what I say literally.

So, I learned to always say what I mean with him. He is learning to understand my humor and me more, I think. I just feel like the way I learned to deal with him so quickly, he isn't going to learn the same with me because he isn't an NF. But he is learning.

I don't want him to change at all, I've learned alot from him, and I like him the way he is. But yeah I think he needs to relax and be present more def.

Yes, I'm sure he is willing to learn, if you spell things out for him. It's not unwillingness....

As for wanting him to be more relaxed...pfft, good luck with that.

 

[ArbiterDewey]

Yeah...I knw I do that too. I really don't know any other way to start a conversation.

"Hi, how are you?" works wonders (seriously and sarcastically.) Get involved in conversation normally, as though you were talking to a friend, then throw in a question like, "How do you feel?" or wait for us to bring it up. NEVER ask "What are you thinking right now?...*pause*...*waiting*...*impatience*..." because, especially if you're long winded, I'm not thinking of anything. I'm listening and processing/analyzing what has been said. I can interject thoughts as I deem them necessary, but otherwise I'm not actively thinking of something else. Rarely can I answer this question because I need silence and time to do emotional thinking, if that makes sense. (I'm aware of the oxymoron)

The biggest reason I'm against, "what are you thinking right now?" is that that is not the question being asked. It is really, "You're thinking about me, right? What about me are you thinking about?" And, just as a heads up, I cant read minds...so I sit around mentioning things I'm actually trying to think, completely oblivious to the non-existent question that I'm expected to answer.

Emotional validation is confusing because it is a gray area...never black and white. I don't know the cues for said responses, why? I just don't. They don't come to me instinctively as they do to most.

Kinda ranted here unintentionally, y'all will have to excuse me. If it applies; great, if not; sorry.

 

[Bella]

I really depends how you approach the communication. I'm having a problem with my g/f, type unknown E?F?. She always starts up conversation with an emotional question/remark that sparks my emotions, but drains my energy. It's like, "We just started this conversation, couldn't we work into emotions slower? It's time for breakfast, damnit." lol



We really have no idea what we're missing half of the time.

I also get all freaked out at emotional interrogation but a part of me enjoys it.

 

[Bella]

"Hi, how are you?" works wonders (seriously and sarcastically.) Get involved in conversation normally, as though you were talking to a friend, then throw in a question like, "How do you feel?" or wait for us to bring it up. NEVER ask "What are you thinking right now?...*pause*...*waiting*...*impatience*..." because, especially if you're long winded, I'm not thinking of anything. I'm listening and processing/analyzing what has been said. I can interject thoughts as I deem them necessary, but otherwise I'm not actively thinking of something else. Rarely can I answer this question because I need silence and time to do emotional thinking, if that makes sense. (I'm aware of the oxymoron)

The biggest reason I'm against, "what are you thinking right now?" is that that is not the question being asked. It is really, "You're thinking about me, right? What about me are you thinking about?" And, just as a heads up, I cant read minds...so I sit around mentioning things I'm actually trying to think, completely oblivious to the non-existent question that I'm expected to answer.

Emotional validation is confusing because it is a gray area...never black and white. I don't know the cues for said responses, why? I just don't. They don't come to me instinctively as they do to most.

Kinda ranted here unintentionally, y'all will have to excuse me. If it applies; great, if not; sorry.

For real? 'What are you thinking about' means 'are you thinking about me?'
Who knew...

 

[ArbiterDewey]

For real? 'What are you thinking about' means 'are you thinking about me?'
Who knew...

 

[Bella]

I just realized, that might sound sarcastic. I wasn't being sarcastic.

 

[ArbiterDewey]

I just realized, that might sound sarcastic. I wasn't being sarcastic.

lol. Yeah, it took me time to realize that was what she was really asking. It bugs the shit out of me. I go out of my way to validate one day, then day two arrives and she needs it all over again... "But I told you all of this yesterday...are my opinions supposed to have changed overnight? They don't do that."

I mean...would she really prefer me to write up some bullshit fluff and repeat it with different words each day? I could, but it wouldn't be the truth. After awhile it would become a response set. It'd come so "naturally," that I wouldn't have to think of the meaning. They'd just be words...and words mean nothing without context.

 

[Rachelinpa]

He takes me very literal, like sometimes I can be sarcastic and he not get it right away and take what I say literally.

Hehe.

She always starts up conversation with an emotional question/remark that sparks my emotions, but drains my energy. It's like, "We just started this conversation, couldn't we work into emotions slower? It's time for breakfast, damnit." lol

Yeeeaaahhh. Need for emotional understanding aside, I can find this communication totally endearing, especially if (WHEN) the ISTJ learns to laugh at my interrogative enthusiasm and my delight in poking fun at his unswerving mindsets and methods of life.

I love the ISTJ. So literal. Funny, funny!

 

[Rachelinpa]

I also get all freaked out at emotional interrogation but a part of me enjoys it.

HAHA! Yeah, you do!

 

[Bella]

lol. Yeah, it took me time to realize that was what she was really asking. It bugs the shit out of me. I go out of my way to validate one day, then day two arrives and she needs it all over again... "But I told you all of this yesterday...are my opinions supposed to have changed overnight? They don't do that."

I mean...would she really prefer me to write up some bullshit fluff and repeat it with different words each day? I could, but it wouldn't be the truth. After awhile it would become a response set. It'd come so "naturally," that I wouldn't have to think of the meaning. They'd just be words...and words mean nothing without context.

Do you know what her type is?

 

[hermeticdancer]

"Hi, how are you?" works wonders
NEVER ask "What are you thinking right now?... I'll sit around mentioning things I'm actually trying to think, completely oblivious to the non-existent question that I'm expected to answer.

Emotional validation is confusing.
I don't know the cues for said responses, why? I just don't. They don't come to me instinctively as they do to most.

I am sort of paraphrasing what you said here.

So are you saying ask HOW are you?

That is a form of validation actually, because you are acknowledging the other person. Why? Implies interrogation, and usually upsets people.

Validation is not something that comes naturally to everyone, even me. It takes practice, effort and the willingness to be vulnerable. It's about intimacy.

You don't have to validate someone all the time, but when they are expressing their emotions, (not everyday chores, ie. what to put on the shopping list etc.) it is good manners to do so.

Listening and simple phrases to acknowledge you are present will work.

The best examples are demonstrated in a book called:
"I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better"

Amazon.com: I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better: Gary Lundberg, Joy Lundberg: Books

This book is very well written and simple, and helped me with interpersonal communication.

 

[Totenkindly]

I mean...would she really prefer me to write up some bullshit fluff and repeat it with different words each day? I could, but it wouldn't be the truth. After awhile it would become a response set. It'd come so "naturally," that I wouldn't have to think of the meaning. They'd just be words...and words mean nothing without context.

The only comparable thing I can think of for me is that since I am so P, I am constantly flexing to the current situation.

So someone can affirm me on one day, but as more and more time passes, depending on what has happened in the meanwhile, that affirmation can lose power and/or become distorted... especially if my interactions with said person include the possibility of some negative things (based on events, or mistakes I have made, or things they've done/said that seem negative).

So affirmation DOES have a "half-life" for a P and the length of time it takes to lose power depends on the situation(s) that have occurred since the affirmation was given.

You have to periodically stoke the fire back up. At least with P's, there's a lot less chance you can just set the bar once and then not touch it again, you need to make allowance for the typical erosion of any positive strokes you might have given. I'm not talking on a "schedule," I'm simply talking about making sure you keep fueling the fire and don't let it fall away.

 

[ArbiterDewey]

Thanks for the responses. My concern is that every time we begin talking it always, inevitably ends up in a "what are you thinking?" or "what about me do you like the best?" or we'll trade, "I miss you" but her's has a "why" tacked on the end. It brings our conversation to a stand still and nothing else can get said for its duration. I literally fear having to sit through these now. I want to be with her, but this is unreasonable. Right?

Oh, and I guess it would help to say that we haven't been going out for long at all. A week at most. It's been shaky from the start.

*deep sigh*...

Another week of headache and I'm out.