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[SJ] Intellectually curious SJ's

proteanmix

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^^^I was getting there. I need to unleash my Monday Morning Fury.

Of course the default for Ns is intellectually curious.
Smart S=average N.
 

substitute

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Proteanmix - I don't see this being about intelligence/smartness, but curiosity... perhaps you equate the two and perhaps they are often associated, but they're not the same thing entirely, so it doesn't necessarily follow that someone not seeing the one in a person would automatically assume the other to not be present.

Perhaps ajblaise in the OP is falling victim to simply not recognizing or understanding these different manifestations of intelligence and curiosity; considering how as I described earlier, I find it very difficult to get my SJ friends and relatives to engage in speculative conversation triggered by sheer curiosity, I can see how it would be easy for me, and has been in the past, to assume that this is because they have no curiosity. This I've begun to realize is a false impression, and this thread could be a positive attempt to fully expose this fallacy and address the root causes of the prejudices upon which it's built - i.e., the different ways in which people manifest similar qualities and the lack of recognition of the fact that something simply not being noticed by certain people does not equal it not existing.

But I don't know how anything constructive is going to be discussed or how ajblaise is going to realize the errors of his impressions if this thread descends into another witch hunt, started by a rather thinly veiled ad hominem attack against someone for simply being young and tactless, even though the very existence of his question, however tactlessly worded, shows that he is QUESTIONING the false assumptions upon which it hangs - surely a good thing?
 

Bella

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Uhm, this was a very nice middle-of-the night converstion, thank you very much....I'm an SJ and wasn't offended by it.
 

proteanmix

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Proteanmix - I don't see this being about intelligence/smartness, but curiosity... perhaps you equate the two and perhaps they are often associated, but they're not the same thing entirely, so it doesn't necessarily follow that someone not seeing the one in a person would automatically assume the other to not be present.

Perhaps ajblaise in the OP is falling victim to simply not recognizing or understanding these different manifestations of intelligence and curiosity; considering how as I described earlier, I find it very difficult to get my SJ friends and relatives to engage in speculative conversation triggered by sheer curiosity, I can see how it would be easy for me, and has been in the past, to assume that this is because they have no curiosity. This I've begun to realize is a false impression, and this thread could be a positive attempt to fully expose this fallacy and address the root causes of the prejudices upon which it's built - i.e., the different ways in which people manifest similar qualities and the lack of recognition of the fact that something simply not being noticed by certain people does not equal it not existing.

But I don't know how anything constructive is going to be discussed or how ajblaise is going to realize the errors of his impressions if this thread descends into another witch hunt, started by a rather thinly veiled ad hominem attack against someone for simply being young and tactless, even though the very existence of his question, however tactlessly worded, shows that he is QUESTIONING the false assumptions upon which it hangs - surely a good thing?

I think you are exactly right, Sub! When these questions are posed on the forum there is a definite failure to distinguish between intelligence and (intellectual) curiosity and which types have it and which ones don't. It seemed to me that he was insinuating that SJs more often err on the side of not having intellectual curiosity which is what took issue with. Since you've teased that nuance maybe this thread can move in a more productive direction. Given ajblaise's bumptious posting style (how's that for thinly veiled ad hominem?? :cool:) it's good brought up that very pertinent point. :)
 

substitute

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this thread smells like generalizations ...

I think it smells more like EXPOSING generalizations and dispelling them through respectful discussion...

Let's not go all strawman now, please! I'd love if the topic could remain the differing expressions of intellectual curiosity and not descend into discussions over whether ajblaise is or isn't evil and nasty for asking the question...

*sees first ever successful contact/communication between self and Proteanmix*
*faints*
:9436:
 

Bella

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I think when you're not there when a thread starts you could miss the atmoshere of it when you read it later.
 

mlittrell

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I think it smells more like EXPOSING generalizations and dispelling them through respectful discussion...

Let's not go all strawman now, please! I'd love if the topic could remain the differing expressions of intellectual curiosity and not descend into discussions over whether ajblaise is or isn't evil and nasty for asking the question...

*sees first ever successful contact/communication between self and Proteanmix*
*faints*
:9436:

it's a lot faster and more fun to expose it lol
 

Bella

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Not you. I used "you' instead of 'one'. Bad English.
 

proteanmix

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Not you. I used "you' instead of 'one'. Bad English.

Yes, context makes a big difference. But that kinda makes it hard to jump in on a lot of threads too.

Many of the SJs on the thread seem to be saying that they only investigate things that trigger their interest. I also notice that of those that have answered so far, most are introverts. Do you think that an ISJ is more likely to pursue fewer interests in depth and than an ESJ? How is that any different from any other introverted type?
 

Bella

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I don't know about the I/E question you're asking.
But about only investigating things that trigger our interests? That's not such an un-noble thing, how many people really investigate things they're not drawn to.
 

substitute

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Maybe it's different methods of pursuing interests. As I said earlier, I tend to pursue things initially the very moment they occur to me by talking about them with whoever i'm with. My ISTJ friend pursues things by looking them up and researching them, and when he considers that he's finished pursuing it, then he discusses it. This isn't necessarily an SJ thing though anyway because ptgatsby described himself doing exactly the same process and he's an SP. He also said he doesn't like theorizing and discussing before researching, either. For me the discussion constitutes part of the research. Is that NP, or just general E? I don't know...

But obviously if your main method of pursuing your curiosity is not through discussion, it's gonna be easy for people to not notice that you have any! Meanwhile if you're doing the ENxP thing of randomly throwing out your random thoughts, associations, connections and questions, it's obvious that you're going to be seen as a more curious sorta person.

Could also be an IT thing - that the curiosity is expressed inwardly and pursued non-personally, whilst perhaps E's and F's are more likely express it outwardly and interpersonally?

Just a few observations there :)
 

Bella

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Maybe it's different methods of pursuing interests. As I said earlier, I tend to pursue things initially the very moment they occur to me by talking about them with whoever i'm with. My ISTJ friend pursues things by looking them up and researching them, and when he considers that he's finished pursuing it, then he discusses it. This isn't necessarily an SJ thing though anyway because ptgatsby described himself doing exactly the same process and he's an SP. He also said he doesn't like theorizing and discussing before researching, either. For me the discussion constitutes part of the research. Is that NP, or just general E? I don't know...

But obviously if your main method of pursuing your curiosity is not through discussion, it's gonna be easy for people to not notice that you have any! Meanwhile if you're doing the ENxP thing of randomly throwing out your random thoughts, associations, connections and questions, it's obvious that you're going to be seen as a more curious sorta person.

Could also be an IT thing - that the curiosity is expressed inwardly and pursued non-personally, whilst perhaps E's and F's are more likely express it outwardly and interpersonally?

Just a few observations there :)

Yes, I dont discuss anything with anybody. I find something interesting, I read about, that's it. I don't tell anyone, because if I had to turn around and tell someone how interseting sardines are they'll probabaly choke on their lunch. Anyway, I hardly FEEL a need to share my new found information.
 

Recoleta

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Just to add a couple more things, I don't only and exclusively research things that I find interesting...the research is much more pleasant when that happens to be the case, but I also force myself to learn about and research things that I don't particularly care for, but that I would consider to be useful and practical for me to know.

For instance, auto mechanics does not really interest me in the least, but I can check and change my oil, rotate/change my tires, check and add air pressure to the tires, jack up my car, and do a couple of other things on my own. I don't enjoy it all that much, but I'm glad I know how to do such things.

Also, I think I don't like to talk about things at the initial point of my curiosity, because usually if I'm curious about something, it means that my prior background knowledge is probably limited. Often times reading allows me to make connections to things I already know, and then make analogies in my head in a way that makes sense to me. I'm the kind of person where I don't like to open my mouth if I'm not sure about something. When I speak I prefer to be concise and accurate. I don't speak just for the heck of filling silence.
 

pure_mercury

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I engage in long, bizarre, speculative conversation a good amount of the time. My sense of humor is very off-kilter and transgressive, as well. My intellectual curiosity is also quite strong, but it's more about trying to learn as much relevant information about a given topic as I can (and, believe me, I get obsessive about it), as opposed to learn the underlying principles that make it work. I enjoy reading about cosmology, for instance, but I couldn't stand to do the simplest equations in Survey of the Universe class at college.
 

substitute

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Yeah, so E and F seem to play a big part in how much external manifestation there is of intellectual curiosity...

Recoleta, I totally admire that you learned about car maintenance even though you don't enjoy it. I hate it too, and I have to admit I'm quite ashamed of the fact that I use this as an excuse to not bother learning about it, and say things like "If it means I have to pay a mechanic to not have to waste my time learning something I'm not interested in, then it's money well spent", and I'm ashamed of that because to think that any knowledge is a waste of time is sorta against my credo. I've kept on meaning to learn that exact thing, but have put it off and put it off because I just find it so difficult to motivate myself through anything other than genuine curiosity and interest. "Mere" practicality just isn't a motive for me... perhaps equally shamefully, because I rely on being able to persuade others to do practical stuff for me :blush:
 

ajblaise

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Proteanmix - I don't see this being about intelligence/smartness, but curiosity... perhaps you equate the two and perhaps they are often associated, but they're not the same thing entirely, so it doesn't necessarily follow that someone not seeing the one in a person would automatically assume the other to not be present.

Yeah I thought I made the difference obvious, I mean, I made the distinction.

It seemed to me that he was insinuating that SJs more often err on the side of not having intellectual curiosity which is what took issue with.

I was doing more than just insinuating it...:)

SJ's seem, on average, to have less intellectual curiosity than NT's... is that statement really that surprising and controversial? I'm not saying they are less intelligent.
 

Mondo

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To be a typist snob, how would you define an 'intellectually curious SJ'? If it is someone who gets straight A's in high school and college- then that person isn't necessarily intellectually curious.
Especially for the SJ- there are other reasons to do well in school besides acquiring knowledge and exploring.
I say this as someone who is in a college that's probably at least 50% SJ.. you need to be an excellent student to get into Duke but not necessarily an intellectually curious one.
In fact, some of the people I know who are the most intellectual often didn't have so hot high school grades because they didn't care about doing mind-numbing homework assignments when they could put their focus elsewhere.
 
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