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  1. #1
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Default Common ISTJ Issues

    I saw some posts like this, looked at them for about five seconds, and low key just intuited that there won't be one for ISTJ, not just because of the sheer small number of SJs on this site, but also because we seem to be the sort who are like. "What issues? Why am I opening my yap about it instead of going about solving it?"

    ...On some other level, though, I do think it's not a bad thing to converse, and maybe gain some other perspectives from this act. Or just type shit out and occupy the time. There's benefits in thinking and verbalising.

    I'll start.

    Basically, I'm this basket of annoyances, (probably because SLI-Te - SLI-Si seems a lot more relaxed), and have a lot of trouble typing myself not because of the lack of analytic ability, so to speak, but because I compensate so much for intuitive functions that it's really not that difficult for me to grasp... I was gonna say "vague shit", but I'll go with "abstract concepts". In the process of typing, I've had to go through all this evaluation (whether I'm a really looping INTP, or whether I'm a looping ISTP, or if I'm an INTJ [That part was most certainly rejected because I know so many of them and they're just. Pffft I love those salty bastards you know]. ISTP because of the tertiary position Ni occupies in the stack alongside Ti; the ability to shut out pain and sensory inconveniences in an Se Aux, for instance, while still being the masters of Ti - that sounded quite nice, all in all.

    Now, descriptions for ISTJ really aren't compelling, and honestly a lot of ISTJs don't exactly help, mainly because we're this small number in the community full of its prejudices against "Sensors", and also, these people have a way of putting things that makes people want to snore (Well, me, mostly). It is perhaps because we're SJs that, if we don't use this sort of language and try and establish a certain sort of credibility, in proving we understand these concepts... etc etc. I think that's the case, at least. Why is this not Ni? Ni just knows. But Si knows because it's seen so many examples of this kind of impulse before.

    And then there's the typing of all the philosophers. Marx was clearly INTJ, so it went, as was Ayn Rand and so on. So maybe they clearly need to get into a duel to see who's the Ultimate INTJ Philosopher, masters of all Ni-Te. Jokes aside, the point is that people don't really type either a literary figure, or a philosopher, as Si or Se unless it's really bloody obvious, like in the case of Hemingway and Tolkien, where there's this rich repertoire of other life activities that they can look into. This kinda puts me in a very strange position because as long as I can remember, the realm of ideas and knowlege - I don't presume to say I'm the best at it, but I'll say with great certainty it's my area of competence, and honestly, if a lot of people are acting smug about it I want to punch them upside the jaw out of a sense of commitment to integrity. Anyway, the point is - it's just something that's familiar to me for as far as I know. I'm not saying I'm better, and I morally oppose those who say it's better. But that's not the point at all.

    As a side note: What about philosophers who were clearly dealing with "Sensor" data? As far as I'm concerned, if we're typing philosophers based on philosophical theory, there's very little to say that a lot of these ideas aren't necessarily "sensory" in nature, because there's just a certain primacy to empiricism. Heck, if we look at Heidegger, he's describing a mode of being in the world. How is that not embodied by Se in linguistic form? Or Slavoj Zizek - sure, he talks about alternate ideas and welcomes radical change, but that hardly means he's doing it because he sees the possibilities inherent in abstract concepts; a lot of his analysis are explained with specific, concrete examples, whether national or historical. This isn't to say that I actually am typing them, I'm just making a point. I make this point without typing them because I don't even have a lot of faith or strong belief in how far reaching MBTI is as a concept for analysing a lot of things. It's just a diversion.

    We're just stereotyped as these little worker bees, doomed to sweep some intuitives' floors or something, and frankly, that's insulting. Not because floors need to be swept, but because another of the smartest person I know, whom reality hasn't been kind to, who never had the chance to go to school the way I did, is also ISTJ. If he had the opportunity to go to school, he'd fucking wreck all of these pretentious assholes' asses. But he'd do so, kindly, because he's a good person.

    But the point is, life is bigger. All this thought about phenomenology has made me think that there is more to life than just abstract conceptions. And to be frank, I also find it insulting that menial labour is used to diminish those for whom it is their primordial way of being. I mean, shit, they're probably better at that than I am. Nothing like a grandmother to put you in your place and tell you you're sweeping the floor the wrong way, get on her level.

    And floors still need to be swept. Don't fucking degrade that shit. What do these people do, live in a goddamn pigsty?
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi
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  2. #2
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Default

    Welcome to the forum, good to hear you've started this thread and opened the floor. My father is an ISTJ and provided me with a template growing up of honour, integrity, the value of hard work and not complaining about problems but solving them.

    I hope your thread attracts some more discussion, but there's not too many self-typed ISTJs here so don't be too surpirsed if it attracts attention rather slowly. I hope you post in other topics too and share your ISTJ viewpoints.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #3
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Welcome to the forum, good to hear you've started this thread and opened the floor. My father is an ISTJ and provided me with a template growing up of honour, integrity, the value of hard work and not complaining about problems but solving them.

    I hope your thread attracts some more discussion, but there's not too many self-typed ISTJs here so don't be too surpirsed if it attracts attention rather slowly. I hope you post in other topics too and share your ISTJ viewpoints.
    Hey there,
    Thank you. My father, too, is ISTJ, and recently I've been reading a book which was basically what I think is an INTJ reflecting on the relationship between father and son.

    That said, my father and I are actually quite different in a lot of things; I don't have his sense of surety, and as far as I am concerned, I don't want to become like him because frankly, even though he is a good person, his life is not exactly what I'd consider happy. Stuck in an unhappy marriage because of his beliefs, taken advantage of by everyone around him, especially friends that left him, because of what he thinks is right, always good at doing things but having people take him for granted, me included. I used to think that I wanted to become like him, but now... Not so much, especially when I see the same thing happening to me, and that's not how I want to live my life.

    I don't actually mind if it attracts zero attention whatsoever, mostly because I don't really think it'd matter that much in the long run. I kind of low key expected to just drift away from this out of sheer boredom eventually, when I find something more fruitful and enjoyable to occupy my time with. Now, though, it's an adequate diversion.

    I'm not exactly self-typed - an acquaintance had observed that the reasoning I provided for a lot of things correspond to ISTJ. I didn't actually give the idea of being one much credit until that moment - and then I realised that Si is actually something I've been using all along, and that Ne grip was probably the cause of my anxieties. I'd never even considered ISTJ as an option until then, but after that it was pretty much a conscious choice and an intellectual conviction.
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi

  4. #4
    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato Nadeshiko View Post


    Ti is the mean function because it doesn't have a filter so everything my Ti does, if unchecked by Fe, is too harsh
    Lol Fi is my "mean" function, meaner than Te. I've said horrible things because something they have said interfered with my values. Fi is stupid in TJs, and I'm glad it doesn't make its presence noticed that often.
    "Avoid getting too preoccupied thinking about what you’re going to do, to actually do it."
    — Rachel Wolchin

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  5. #5
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilephantomhive View Post
    Lol Fi is my "mean" function, meaner than Te. I've said horrible things because something they have said interfered with my values. Fi is stupid in TJs, and I'm glad it doesn't make its presence noticed that often.
    Fi: Gonna say it
    Te: ....NO
    Fi: You're a doodyface and I don't trust you or like you
    Te: *facepalm* *shoves Fi back under the rug*
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi
    Likes Smilephantomhive, yama liked this post

  6. #6
    Wei 18 - Sie 39 agentwashington's Avatar
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    Default

    ...I don't wanna be one of those ISTJs that just lecture people, but sometimes I seem to slip into that and I just. know it's not very nice and probably not my place.
    "You’re on Earth. There’s no cure for that."
    — Samuel Beckett, Endgame

    “This world is beautiful. People can love each other and live life respecting each other. Someday everyone will come to realize that and this will become a beautiful world full of only such people.”
    — Kino no Tabi
    Likes Korvinagor, Crystal Winter Dream liked this post

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