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[ESFJ] The Drama Queen

Mal12345

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Just for fun, it could be interesting to start doing more comparison/contrast analysis of people within a type. I've had two ESFJ mother-in-laws who were quite different from each other.

The first was a very dominant personality who would pull people in to 'volunteer' for various projects she was focused on doing. She did a lot of charitable work and tended to go over the top with any project. If she was planting a garden, it would be way too big, so the overflow of food would have to be given away. This created a lot of work for everyone around her and she tended to assume everyone would help. She was good at putting social and guilt pressure on others to join in, and fwiw, her projects were always very helpful to someone. She would look at introverts who spend time thinking as lazy, and so we came up with a little joke saying 'not lazy, just busy on the inside'. She also was good at keeping the family together, gathering everyone around for family events and holidays. She liked to recreate the Thanksgiving meal that was familiar and traditional for her. She never thought much about who I am, and I don't even really know her opinion of me, except that she tended to ignore some of my needs in favor of her son's. She also used to tell whimsical bedtime stories to her many younger siblings when she was a teenager.

My second mother-in-law is very sensitive, submissive and a little nervous, but tries to think of everything. She has some tendency to assume I am like people she has known before. She was surprised to find out I drink coffee because she saw me drinking tea and the people she knows are one or the other. She is thoughtful and sweet, but tends to be giving on her terms, and will tend to give gifts that she values but may not be useful. She gives us tons of sweets and then an article about reducing belly fat. That's specific to her, but also a bit confusing because of the inconsistency. I think she wants her gifts to be well received and who doesn't like cake, cookies, and chocolate? But then she feels guilty about it when her son starts gaining weight. She talks about her past experiences and likes everything to be pleasant, peaceful, and lovely. I don't feel like she investigates much about who I am either. It is more focused on getting the family together. She also likes whimsical comedies and silly stories.

Both stay busy keeping everything in order and both are the ones to bring family together and keep in touch. Both give off a vibe of taking care of everything and sometimes feeling overwhelmed. Both have an occasional expression of a hidden whimsy.

I also know some young ESFJs who are very cheerful, sporty, and involved in tons of activities. They are runners, take music lessons, go out with friends, are always smiling and busy. The commonalities tend to be that ESFJs are socially invested - their own identity and efforts are focused on keeping everyone together, whether that is family or friends. They can be good at delegating tasks to help coordinate everything and can do this diplomatically or forcefully. They are often busy getting everything necessary completed. They define people based on behaviors and things that they do and accomplish.

That's still a small sample set, but that's my impressions fwiw to throw into the pot of stew.

The second mother-in-law sounds like an ISFJ because of such things as focusing on the past and assuming that others will like the same things she likes. There is a lot of assuming going on specific to making sure that the present matches her past experiences. And when you talk about sensitivity, I would say ISFJ over ESFJ, not that ISFJ is the only sensitive type, but that it is more of an introverted trait.
 

prplchknz

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Just for fun, it could be interesting to start doing more comparison/contrast analysis of people within a type. I've had two ESFJ mother-in-laws who were quite different from each other.

The first was a very dominant personality who would pull people in to 'volunteer' for various projects she was focused on doing. She did a lot of charitable work and tended to go over the top with any project. If she was planting a garden, it would be way too big, so the overflow of food would have to be given away. This created a lot of work for everyone around her and she tended to assume everyone would help. She was good at putting social and guilt pressure on others to join in, and fwiw, her projects were always very helpful to someone. She would look at introverts who spend time thinking as lazy, and so we came up with a little joke saying 'not lazy, just busy on the inside'. She also was good at keeping the family together, gathering everyone around for family events and holidays. She liked to recreate the Thanksgiving meal that was familiar and traditional for her. She never thought much about who I am, and I don't even really know her opinion of me, except that she tended to ignore some of my needs in favor of her son's. She also used to tell whimsical bedtime stories to her many younger siblings when she was a teenager.

My second mother-in-law is very sensitive, submissive and a little nervous, but tries to think of everything. She has some tendency to assume I am like people she has known before. She was surprised to find out I drink coffee because she saw me drinking tea and the people she knows are one or the other. She is thoughtful and sweet, but tends to be giving on her terms, and will tend to give gifts that she values but may not be useful. She gives us tons of sweets and then an article about reducing belly fat. That's specific to her, but also a bit confusing because of the inconsistency. I think she wants her gifts to be well received and who doesn't like cake, cookies, and chocolate? But then she feels guilty about it when her son starts gaining weight. She talks about her past experiences and likes everything to be pleasant, peaceful, and lovely. I don't feel like she investigates much about who I am either. It is more focused on getting the family together. She also likes whimsical comedies and silly stories.

Both stay busy keeping everything in order and both are the ones to bring family together and keep in touch. Both give off a vibe of taking care of everything and sometimes feeling overwhelmed. Both have an occasional expression of a hidden whimsy.

I also know some young ESFJs who are very cheerful, sporty, and involved in tons of activities. They are runners, take music lessons, go out with friends, are always smiling and busy. The commonalities tend to be that ESFJs are socially invested - their own identity and efforts are focused on keeping everyone together, whether that is family or friends. They can be good at delegating tasks to help coordinate everything and can do this diplomatically or forcefully. They are often busy getting everything necessary completed. They define people based on behaviors and things that they do and accomplish.

That's still a small sample set, but that's my impressions fwiw to throw into the pot of stew.

that describes my friend's motivation socially. the bolded
 

Siúil a Rúin

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The second mother-in-law sounds like an ISFJ because of such things as focusing on the past and assuming that others will like the same things she likes. There is a lot of assuming going on specific to making sure that the present matches her past experiences. And when you talk about sensitivity, I would say ISFJ over ESFJ, not that ISFJ is the only sensitive type, but that it is more of an introverted trait.
She probably leans in the direction of introversion, but she does spend her time socially shopping and meeting with church friends. She lived out in the country for a few years, but became extremely lonely and told me how she just really "missed people", so she isn't all the way to the introversion end of the spectrum and at most XSFJ. Her life is occupied by the people in her family and her church friends and her topic of conversation is always what has recently happened to everyone she knows in any given context.
 

Bush

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That's not proven, but it doesn't matter, because I'm trying to represent a reality, not a majority.
What's the difference between the two? Do you mean that the type itself is the reality while the majority is how that type manifests?
 

Mal12345

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She probably leans in the direction of introversion, but she does spend her time socially shopping and meeting with church friends. She lived out in the country for a few years, but became extremely lonely and told me how she just really "missed people", so she isn't all the way to the introversion end of the spectrum and at most XSFJ. Her life is occupied by the people in her family and her church friends and her topic of conversation is always what has recently happened to everyone she knows in any given context.

I don't think you know what introversion is in the context of JCF. I'm saying that between Si and Fe being dominant, I read more Si in your description of mother-in-law 2.
 

Mal12345

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What's the difference between the two? Do you mean that the type itself is the reality while the majority is how that type manifests?

The reality is the negativity of the ESFJ, even if it's not part of the majority of the ESFJ type individually. ESTJ and ESFJ have the gift of screaming, whether they choose to use it or not.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I don't think you know what introversion is in the context of JCF. I'm saying that between Si and Fe being dominant, I read more Si in your description of mother-in-law 2.
That conclusion would make it more consistent with your premise, but I do know what introversion means in terms of which function is dominant. Keep in mind that I've had hundreds of interactions with both women and presented one paragraph description. I could provide descriptions to make the other one seem like a Si dom. She relied on the past as well and took great pains to literally recreate the Thanksgiving dinner from her past down to every detail. Being a Si aux also produces those same kinds of ways of thinking and relying on the past to inform the present. An auxilary function is still very significant in how someone interacts with the world. MIL2 has tons of information about all of the people around her. She even knows the latest on every person who were former neighbors. I don't see her every day, but she must talk on the phone catching up with all of the external social information and that is not Si, but Fe. I think she is a gentle, sweet an ESFJ who is primarily invested in people and who reflects and relies on her past experiences.
 

Ursa

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Well, this is an unorthodox direction. Will you be constructing similar profiles for all of the types?
 

Mal12345

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Well, this is an unorthodox direction. Will you be constructing similar profiles for all of the types?

I don't know. It takes a long time to compile the data for each type.
 

Jaguar

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Just sounds like a rant: type edition, can't verify if it is all true or it's just one person that's being talked about with no name

I'm going to guess an ESFJ screwed up his dry cleaning and he's seeking revenge.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Aren't a lot of ESFJ dutiful, tireless workers that keep a cheerful smile? They can be the opposite of the drama queen. SFJs are excellent as nurses who are good examples of people who work incredibly hard, but almost never get the recognition for what they do. Nurses need a good bedside manner to manage all the grumpy sick people, and they need to remember concrete details like when medicines were given and the exacting amounts. Of course other types are nurses as well, but it's not a far reach to think about a significant number of humans in this world who could be ESFJ nurses as an example of the type applying natural cognitive skills and behavior. I'm sure there are some ESFJ drama queens, but the premise of the type, being concrete in their reference to the outside world, being focused on extroverted feeling involving social interactions and norms, just seems like these are often the people who maintain a pleasant smile and work really hard. I think both ESFJ and ISFJ can go very unrecognized and unappreciated for their consistency and contribution.

I admire people who remember every birthday because I forget. People who offer pragmatic help in the world are possibly the most effective source of help. I also know that the medical field is better off that I'm not a nurse. I admire people who can do jobs like that because it falls significantly outside my natural skill set and way of thinking.
 

Cellmold

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[MENTION=13589]Mal12345[/MENTION]

How did you figure me out?!

Did you read MY fake diary?
 

EonsInTheNight

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Aren't a lot of ESFJ dutiful, tireless workers that keep a cheerful smile? They can be the opposite of the drama queen. SFJs are excellent as nurses who are good examples of people who work incredibly hard, but almost never get the recognition for what they do. Nurses need a good bedside manner to manage all the grumpy sick people, and they need to remember concrete details like when medicines were given and the exacting amounts. Of course other types are nurses as well, but it's not a far reach to think about a significant number of humans in this world who could be ESFJ nurses as an example of the type applying natural cognitive skills and behavior. I'm sure there are some ESFJ drama queens, but the premise of the type, being concrete in their reference to the outside world, being focused on extroverted feeling involving social interactions and norms, just seems like these are often the people who maintain a pleasant smile and work really hard. I think both ESFJ and ISFJ can go very unrecognized and unappreciated for their consistency and contribution.

I admire people who remember every birthday because I forget. People who offer pragmatic help in the world are possibly the most effective source of help. I also know that the medical field is better off that I'm not a nurse. I admire people who can do jobs like that because it falls significantly outside my natural skill set and way of thinking.

I agree that healthy ESFJ and mature have those traits.
Plus, a single person can manifests, and often does, both the positive and less positive aspects of that type.
I think each function can manifest in different ways depending on what kind of person one is.

I think a definition of Fe could be Feeling that always considers others when making an evaluation.
Of course that makes it seems considerate and emphatic, and in many cases, it is.
But considering the others in one's evaluation, doesn't necessary implies one empathizes with them or their suffering.
For example Fe can justify it's selfish behavior by saying ''he/she would behave the same if I were me''.
Fi by contrast, will justify its selfishness as saying ''well that's me, and I always been like that and won't change'' or something like that.
Basically, selfish Fe uses a kind of principle of reprocitivity but with negative evaluation put on others behavior, thus the selfish Fe user, doesn't feel the need to have a strong moral character, because most people don't, so ''why try to be different? Everyone is on self interest, are you stupid to be otherwise?''.

As such, in a relatively good person, Fe can make them more helpful and emphatic person to those around, but in a morally not very good person, it can make things worse for others.
 
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